6 ms·

Typing in Yiddish

73 points by gruseom 7y ago

jsharf 7y ago
It's interesting to see that the old yiddish typewriter layout is actually not identical to the modern hebrew typing layout. While they're almost identical, about 5 letters have been swapped: ח, א, ס, ף, and ב is just removed from where it is in the modern layout, and moved to the top right, in a location that modern keyboard's don't have (to the right of where P would be, in QWERTY).
- azernik 7y ago
  Well of course it's not identical - they were assembled independently (this one by some random schmoe in New York) optimized for different letter and digram frequencies in different languages. I'm actually impressed by how similar they are. Another reason for difference, aside from frequency differences in the two languages, is that this keyboard distinguishes some characters that aren't on modern Hebrew keyboards. For example, there are separate אָ and א, בּ and ב, etc.
  - MagicPropmaker 7y ago
    And double yod and double vov. Microsoft still had a proper Yiddish keyboard map available. Apple doesn’t.
    - nanna 7y ago
      > Microsoft still had a proper Yiddish keyboard map available Do they?
- wolf550e 7y ago
  Being a Germanic language that has vowels, Yiddish should not have the same keyboard layout as a Semitic language.
  - onyva 7y ago
    Yiddish really has nothing to do with Hebrew other than the script and borrowed words which are forced into it. Sort of like Farsi and Arabic. It’s unfortunate that because of the number advantage Eastern Europeans (and historical events) Jewish culture was completely altered. Authentic Jewish culture and traditions, which were dominant before the holocaust and are so much part of the Middle East and of course deeply influenced by, and influencing on, Islam and Arabic, are obscured. Some suggest the difference is more than tradition, and we are in fact separate people. Many Israelis still find it offensive when foreigners ask them if Yiddish is spoken in Israel. It is not. Zionism tried so very hard to burry it and the culture it represented. https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543
    - oldgradstudent 7y ago
      > Many Israelis still find it offensive when foreigners ask them if Yiddish is spoken in Israel. It is not. Yiddish is spoken in Israel by significant parts of the Ashkenazi Ultra-Orthodox community. The number of speakers is probably in the low hundreds of thousands.
      - Mediterraneo10 7y ago
        Indeed, Yiddish is used in Israel, but consider the demographics here. Foreigners don’t come into much contact with the Yiddish-using Haredim. The Haredim tend to stay within their own communities, which are not neighbourhoods where just any tourist is going to pass through. Even when I have often been picked up by Haredim when hitchhiking in Israel, it is hard to have any kind of exchange with them; they will help out a non-religious person, but not chat with them. So, the Israelis whom foreigners are likely to come into contact with are the whole rest of the population. They do not use Yiddish or know a thing about it. Considering how much the more secular part of the country dislikes the Haredim, I can see how they would bristle at any question about a cultural feature they see as Haredim-linked.
      - onyva 7y ago
        "Ashkenazi Ultra-Orthodox community" ... that's my point. They are not "Israeli" in the sense understood by this term today. They might as well be in Brooklin or some shtetl in Poland. Israel is not relveant for them in any meaningful way (excpet for the traditional "shnor").
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
metaprotocol 7y ago
Assimil have an excellent Yiddish language course. I would like to one day, be able to read Isaac Bashevis Singer in the original.
- nanna 7y ago
  Haven't tried Assimil's course, but I'd recommend Lily Kahn's excellent Routledge guide, Colloquial Yiddish, which aside from being pedagogically excellent is very funny and had me laughing a lot. https://www.amazon.com/Colloquial-Yiddish-Lily-Kahn/dp/0415580196 https://www.amazon.com/Colloquial-Yiddish-Lily-Kahn/dp/04155... There are also many courses on offer around the world. One of the great things about them is they tend to also pass down Yiddish culture too, not just the language. Happy to help you find one and get you on track to read IB Singer!
nanna 7y ago
Oh my. I'm the maker of the only-cross platform Yiddish keyboard (well, macOS, Windows, Linux). I've made variants of QWERTY and the Israeli keyboard and they've been well received but life got in the way, they've suffered from bitrot, I had to take my site down,[0] people have asked me to put it back up and its been nagging me on my to do list for ages. This post has given me resolve to sort it out today! Also, I'd never heard of this Jonas and I'm going to add his variant too. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20141218093006/http://shretl.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20141218093006/http://shretl.org...
- metaprotocol 7y ago
  The archived images of your Yiddish keyboard look good.
  - nanna 7y ago
    Thanks for looking! Apparently the Windows one never survived the transition to Windows 10, so I need to look at it again. As for the macOS and Linux ones... I must admit I haven't actually tried them in a while... Assistance or testing really appreciated! https://gitlab.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&snippets=&scope=&search=yiddish https://gitlab.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&snippets=&scope=&se...
ngcc_hk 7y ago
It is a manual for basically one or max two writer of the author! Private language we may argue but we know private typewriter existed.

73 points by gruseom 7y ago

It's interesting to see that the old yiddish typewriter layout is actually not identical to the modern hebrew typing layout. While they're almost identical, about 5 letters have been swapped: ח, א, ס, ף, and ב is just removed from where it is in the modern layout, and moved to the top right, in a location that modern keyboard's don't have (to the right of where P would be, in QWERTY).

azernik 7y ago
Well of course it's not identical - they were assembled independently (this one by some random schmoe in New York) optimized for different letter and digram frequencies in different languages. I'm actually impressed by how similar they are. Another reason for difference, aside from frequency differences in the two languages, is that this keyboard distinguishes some characters that aren't on modern Hebrew keyboards. For example, there are separate אָ and א, בּ and ב, etc.
- MagicPropmaker 7y ago
  And double yod and double vov. Microsoft still had a proper Yiddish keyboard map available. Apple doesn’t.
  - nanna 7y ago
    > Microsoft still had a proper Yiddish keyboard map available Do they?
wolf550e 7y ago
Being a Germanic language that has vowels, Yiddish should not have the same keyboard layout as a Semitic language.
- onyva 7y ago
  Yiddish really has nothing to do with Hebrew other than the script and borrowed words which are forced into it. Sort of like Farsi and Arabic. It’s unfortunate that because of the number advantage Eastern Europeans (and historical events) Jewish culture was completely altered. Authentic Jewish culture and traditions, which were dominant before the holocaust and are so much part of the Middle East and of course deeply influenced by, and influencing on, Islam and Arabic, are obscured. Some suggest the difference is more than tradition, and we are in fact separate people. Many Israelis still find it offensive when foreigners ask them if Yiddish is spoken in Israel. It is not. Zionism tried so very hard to burry it and the culture it represented. https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543
  - oldgradstudent 7y ago
    > Many Israelis still find it offensive when foreigners ask them if Yiddish is spoken in Israel. It is not. Yiddish is spoken in Israel by significant parts of the Ashkenazi Ultra-Orthodox community. The number of speakers is probably in the low hundreds of thousands.
    - Mediterraneo10 7y ago
      Indeed, Yiddish is used in Israel, but consider the demographics here. Foreigners don’t come into much contact with the Yiddish-using Haredim. The Haredim tend to stay within their own communities, which are not neighbourhoods where just any tourist is going to pass through. Even when I have often been picked up by Haredim when hitchhiking in Israel, it is hard to have any kind of exchange with them; they will help out a non-religious person, but not chat with them. So, the Israelis whom foreigners are likely to come into contact with are the whole rest of the population. They do not use Yiddish or know a thing about it. Considering how much the more secular part of the country dislikes the Haredim, I can see how they would bristle at any question about a cultural feature they see as Haredim-linked.
    - onyva 7y ago
      "Ashkenazi Ultra-Orthodox community" ... that's my point. They are not "Israeli" in the sense understood by this term today. They might as well be in Brooklin or some shtetl in Poland. Israel is not relveant for them in any meaningful way (excpet for the traditional "shnor").

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

metaprotocol 7y ago

Assimil have an excellent Yiddish language course. I would like to one day, be able to read Isaac Bashevis Singer in the original.

nanna 7y ago
Haven't tried Assimil's course, but I'd recommend Lily Kahn's excellent Routledge guide, Colloquial Yiddish, which aside from being pedagogically excellent is very funny and had me laughing a lot. https://www.amazon.com/Colloquial-Yiddish-Lily-Kahn/dp/0415580196 https://www.amazon.com/Colloquial-Yiddish-Lily-Kahn/dp/04155... There are also many courses on offer around the world. One of the great things about them is they tend to also pass down Yiddish culture too, not just the language. Happy to help you find one and get you on track to read IB Singer!

nanna 7y ago

Oh my. I'm the maker of the only-cross platform Yiddish keyboard (well, macOS, Windows, Linux). I've made variants of QWERTY and the Israeli keyboard and they've been well received but life got in the way, they've suffered from bitrot, I had to take my site down,[0] people have asked me to put it back up and its been nagging me on my to do list for ages. This post has given me resolve to sort it out today! Also, I'd never heard of this Jonas and I'm going to add his variant too. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20141218093006/http://shretl.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20141218093006/http://shretl.org...

metaprotocol 7y ago
The archived images of your Yiddish keyboard look good.
- nanna 7y ago
  Thanks for looking! Apparently the Windows one never survived the transition to Windows 10, so I need to look at it again. As for the macOS and Linux ones... I must admit I haven't actually tried them in a while... Assistance or testing really appreciated! https://gitlab.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&snippets=&scope=&search=yiddish https://gitlab.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&snippets=&scope=&se...

ngcc_hk 7y ago

It is a manual for basically one or max two writer of the author! Private language we may argue but we know private typewriter existed.