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If you died rich and have a family to leave the wealth to and the state isn't set up to steal your wealth by taxing you a second time, you've won at life. A big

If you died rich and have a family to leave the wealth to and the state isn't set up to steal your wealth by taxing you a second time, you've won at life. A big part of life is spreading your genes and making sure that your offspring are well set up to continue spreading your genes. This either requires heirs and wealth at death or at least making sure you transfer wealth to your heirs before you die.

iamnothere 8y ago
> A big part of life is spreading your genes and making sure that your offspring are well set up to continue spreading your genes. According to some. Or, you can opt out of this and enjoy your life anyway. It's troubling to see so many people in this thread concerned with "winning" at life. In the end we all die, then it's game over. Any high score is quickly forgotten. Life is brief, treasure it while you still draw breath.
- ericd 8y ago
  The main drive/purpose of life is to continue and spread itself, that’s just fundamental biology. You’re free to opt out of that and define your own goals (it sounds like enjoying yourself is your goal), but without another generation to pass it on to, everything that every human has ever done will have been pointless, because the purpose of most of what we do is to help humans. And what we collectively leave them with is the “score” that will be remembered for as long as there are people to remember it. But sure, your individual score is unlikely to be remembered for very long, except by your direct descendants.
  - moneywoes 8y ago
    So having offspring is basically the primary goal of our species?
    - ericd 8y ago
      I'd say the primary purpose of the species is to continue the species. It's not everyone's individual drive, some people not having offspring so that they can focus on other things probably helps the group.
    - inflatableDodo 8y ago
      Surely that is secondary to coming up with bad puns.
  - iamnothere 8y ago
    > it sounds like enjoying yourself is your goal It is one goal of many; there's no reason to limit yourself to a singular goal. I don't claim that my goals have any special meaning though, they are simply how I am driven to act in the world. Each of us is driven in different ways, and although we tend to wrap our drives in elaborate disguises and claim "free will", at the end of the day we are simply elegant (though somewhat squishy) machines. > without another generation to pass it on to, everything that every human has ever done will have been pointless Yes, that's exactly it. The very notion that anything has to have a "point" or "meaning" is something that humans dreamed up. It's an unfortunate side effect of our sense-making systems that help us understand the world.
    - ericd 8y ago
      I didn't mean that derisively, btw. I think it's perfectly fine to want to focus on other things besides raising children. We don't need more people being raised by parents who don't want to raise them. I do think we can modify our drives, though, and that free will isn't quite as much of an illusion as you say. Visualization is pretty powerful. But you're right that there's not necessarily a real point. If it's a complete fiction, though, I think it's a useful one.
      - iamnothere 8y ago
        > I do think we can modify our drives, though, and that free will isn't quite as much of an illusion as you say. Visualization is pretty powerful. I agree that our drives can be modified, but who is modifying them, and based on what drives? And where does the drive to modify ourselves come from? It's turtles all the way down. To quote Hofstadter: "In the end, we self-perceiving, self-inventing, locked-in mirages are little miracles of self-reference."
        ericd 8y ago
        Heh fair enough.
  - jpetso 8y ago
    As long as enough people reproduce around the world, there is another generation to pass it on to. Someday in the future, there may be a time where not enough children are born. Right now though, the global population is still growing and we're in more danger of overpopulation than underpopulation. If I base my thinking on actual numbers rather than the theoretical principle, and in addition I stop worrying about my "score", then I can just focus on the actual stated goal, helping humans. When I'm dead, I'm gone. Them remembering me doesn't do shit for my soulless remains. I might as well do something good for people because I care about people doing well, not because I want people to care about me even after I'm gone.
- malandrew 8y ago
  > Or, you can opt out of this and enjoy your life anyway. The only reason the "enjoy your life" option is even on the table is because someone selflessly did the work of wealth building and society building that makes it possible for us to have the option of a life of leisure today. When you die, it's not game over. If that were the case, you wouldn't even exist because it was once game over for all your ancestors, yet here you are enjoying your life. Culturally, it's a tragedy that we've done an awful job communicating the importance of leaving a legacy for your offspring that enables them to enjoy life like we have. This long chain of people enjoying life only works if we propagate this message.
flyinthewheel 8y ago
I’d be interested in hearing you expand on that. Why do you personally identify with your genes, which will be diluted to nothingness in just a few generations? To my mind it seem a bizarre and borderline pathological worldview- something rooted less in actual biology than in an invented teleology.
chillwaves 8y ago
Taxing a second time? Like what, a sales tax when I make a purchase on my already taxed income?

iamnothere 8y ago

> A big part of life is spreading your genes and making sure that your offspring are well set up to continue spreading your genes. According to some. Or, you can opt out of this and enjoy your life anyway. It's troubling to see so many people in this thread concerned with "winning" at life. In the end we all die, then it's game over. Any high score is quickly forgotten. Life is brief, treasure it while you still draw breath.

ericd 8y ago
The main drive/purpose of life is to continue and spread itself, that’s just fundamental biology. You’re free to opt out of that and define your own goals (it sounds like enjoying yourself is your goal), but without another generation to pass it on to, everything that every human has ever done will have been pointless, because the purpose of most of what we do is to help humans. And what we collectively leave them with is the “score” that will be remembered for as long as there are people to remember it. But sure, your individual score is unlikely to be remembered for very long, except by your direct descendants.
- moneywoes 8y ago
  So having offspring is basically the primary goal of our species?
  - ericd 8y ago
    I'd say the primary purpose of the species is to continue the species. It's not everyone's individual drive, some people not having offspring so that they can focus on other things probably helps the group.
  - inflatableDodo 8y ago
    Surely that is secondary to coming up with bad puns.
- iamnothere 8y ago
  > it sounds like enjoying yourself is your goal It is one goal of many; there's no reason to limit yourself to a singular goal. I don't claim that my goals have any special meaning though, they are simply how I am driven to act in the world. Each of us is driven in different ways, and although we tend to wrap our drives in elaborate disguises and claim "free will", at the end of the day we are simply elegant (though somewhat squishy) machines. > without another generation to pass it on to, everything that every human has ever done will have been pointless Yes, that's exactly it. The very notion that anything has to have a "point" or "meaning" is something that humans dreamed up. It's an unfortunate side effect of our sense-making systems that help us understand the world.
  - ericd 8y ago
    I didn't mean that derisively, btw. I think it's perfectly fine to want to focus on other things besides raising children. We don't need more people being raised by parents who don't want to raise them. I do think we can modify our drives, though, and that free will isn't quite as much of an illusion as you say. Visualization is pretty powerful. But you're right that there's not necessarily a real point. If it's a complete fiction, though, I think it's a useful one.
    - iamnothere 8y ago
      > I do think we can modify our drives, though, and that free will isn't quite as much of an illusion as you say. Visualization is pretty powerful. I agree that our drives can be modified, but who is modifying them, and based on what drives? And where does the drive to modify ourselves come from? It's turtles all the way down. To quote Hofstadter: "In the end, we self-perceiving, self-inventing, locked-in mirages are little miracles of self-reference."
      - ericd 8y ago
        Heh fair enough.
- jpetso 8y ago
  As long as enough people reproduce around the world, there is another generation to pass it on to. Someday in the future, there may be a time where not enough children are born. Right now though, the global population is still growing and we're in more danger of overpopulation than underpopulation. If I base my thinking on actual numbers rather than the theoretical principle, and in addition I stop worrying about my "score", then I can just focus on the actual stated goal, helping humans. When I'm dead, I'm gone. Them remembering me doesn't do shit for my soulless remains. I might as well do something good for people because I care about people doing well, not because I want people to care about me even after I'm gone.
malandrew 8y ago
> Or, you can opt out of this and enjoy your life anyway. The only reason the "enjoy your life" option is even on the table is because someone selflessly did the work of wealth building and society building that makes it possible for us to have the option of a life of leisure today. When you die, it's not game over. If that were the case, you wouldn't even exist because it was once game over for all your ancestors, yet here you are enjoying your life. Culturally, it's a tragedy that we've done an awful job communicating the importance of leaving a legacy for your offspring that enables them to enjoy life like we have. This long chain of people enjoying life only works if we propagate this message.

flyinthewheel 8y ago

I’d be interested in hearing you expand on that. Why do you personally identify with your genes, which will be diluted to nothingness in just a few generations? To my mind it seem a bizarre and borderline pathological worldview- something rooted less in actual biology than in an invented teleology.

chillwaves 8y ago

Taxing a second time? Like what, a sales tax when I make a purchase on my already taxed income?