> No, I'm saying that determinism precludes free will. > Free will is more than mere non-determinism / randomness. Yes, I even think that free will is not real

> No, I'm saying that determinism precludes free will. > Free will is more than mere non-determinism / randomness. Yes, I even think that free will is not really related to the determinism / non-determinism of the universe, as I said earlier. Free will doesn't make sense in physics. That's why I don't agree that determinism precludes free will. You can define free will in an other way, that is compatible with determinism. That's my point of view, you can read more about it : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism. Your view is called 'Incompatibilism', ie determinism and free will are mutually incompatible. At the end, I think that most of it is a question of definition, but we can all agree that free will in a deterministic world is not the same as free will in a world where people have souls.