6 ms·

I'm in full-on panic mode, but ... well, what can I do that I haven't been doing for 20 years? Nothing, as far as I can see

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Make inaction too expensive to contemplate by causing enough ongoing civil disruption. https://rebellion.earth/ https://rebellion.earth/
- altitudinous 7y ago
  Civil disruption just highlights the problem over and over. We all know there is a problem. Absolutely no-one denies it. Rather than stating the problem over and over - what is YOUR solution? Renewables are not efficient enough to replace coal - if we switch off coal then we equally destroy civilisation and economies just like climate change because renewables are far more expensive and not as efficient as coal. We would effectively be turning off all electricity. I propose nuclear and pumping money at electric cars because they are solutions that you can pump at a government and are efficient, and bring major change quickly! Protest about that, don't pretend we don't know about climate change - we all do!!! I've come up with some - WHAT IS YOUR ACTIONABLE SOLUTION??!!
  - weavie 7y ago
    I would question your assertion that we all know there is a problem. I imagine the vast majority of people don't. They may be vaguely aware of climate change, but most people just think surely it can't be serious and it'll be ok, we'll work it out when it does become a problem. Just the other day the UK courts have dismissed any attempt at blocking an extra runway at Heathrow airport. We need this runway to increase the number of flights out of the UK. Good for the economy etc.. If that isn't a symptom of the vast majority of people being in complete denial I don't know what is. Actionable solution no. 1.. don't build more runways.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      The law is the law. The courts can only uphold and interpret what's written. So before we can get to no more runways we need governments that react appropriately to the problem, and build climate change and environmental consequences into laws. Strong laws that restrict and tax carbon, building regulations, transport, well everything.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    It is an actionable solution. Riots got the poll tax repealed. Civil disobedience achieved independence in India, and civil rights in the US. A march from A to B highlights something - and is always easy to ignore. They always are. The aim of XR is not to tell about climate change. Everyone should know about that. The science was settled decades ago. Just about everyone knows what needs to be done, too. Yet governments do nothing but bleat on about an opportunity from shale oil, or some new coal contract. Then bring a little green washing with far future targets, long after they have retired, or outlawing plastic bags. Civil disobedience and intentional law breaking does not aim to tell anyone the problem, it's bloody obvious. It aims to become a permanent and ongoing drain upon resources. Like a tax or a labour strike. To cause actual costs to the system and state, their people and potentially companies. Costs of policing, of removing chained up protesters, of flooding the courts with formerly law-abiding citizens. At some point government must react.
    - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
      Because of a few great wins in history, we have a rather romantic and rosie notion of civil disobedience, protesting, marching, and general civil disruption. And so they've become well-worn tools of the modern activist. Its worth questioning whether these are the best tools to use in so many circumstances. Its a very real possibility that the gamble doesn't pay off. It might even drive polarization and skepticism among the very people you need to reach the most. It may just create civil unrest and reduce our resources, leaving us less able to fight climate change. Or a few smart people who might otherwise be able to contribute to a solution, end up spending their valuable time in jail, instead.
      - jquery 7y ago
        Survivor bias in civil disobedience makes some people think that “on average” it produces positive results, especially when the cause is “just” (which every violent extremist does, of course). Anyone even casually familiar with history would blush at such arrogance.
      - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        > rosie notion of civil disobedience, protesting, marching, and general civil disruption Personally I see protesting and marching as a nice Saturday afternoon out that achieves precisely nothing. Just look what the massive march and demo against the Iraq war achieved - nowt. It's important not to conflate them with civil disobedience which has very different aims and tactics. It's being an ongoing thorn in the side of the state that has historically made a difference. I certainly don't see that as a well-worn tool of the modern activist - it's a forgotten tactic, replaced by one-off marches or demos, and the online petition. Which achieve almost nothing. If a few smart people feel it's gone too long being ignored that they are now willing to risk prison, well good on them. If they're smart enough and presentable enough to not be easily dismissed as eco-nuts by the right wing media, they can often achieve positive press for their aims. It's hard to dismiss a retiree with 40 years in industry, doctor, or IT consultant quite so easily. It remains to be seen if the gamble and assessment of public opinion is correct. For both XR and the school strikes, the public reaction has appeared hugely positive so far - far more so than I would have expected. Which is a problem for a government that would prefer not to act.
  - justin66 7y ago
    > We all know there is a problem. Absolutely no-one denies it. You keep angrily repeating this, and it's very obviously wrong. Nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep doing this, even if they're natural allies in whatever cause you're part of.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  I'm sure the for-profit prison system would like this as well.
- jquery 7y ago
  At least you’re open about your naked extremism. Horseshoe theory in action, except of course your cause is righteous and just, unlike Those People on the Other Side.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Make inaction too expensive to contemplate by causing enough ongoing civil disruption. https://rebellion.earth/ https://rebellion.earth/

altitudinous 7y ago
Civil disruption just highlights the problem over and over. We all know there is a problem. Absolutely no-one denies it. Rather than stating the problem over and over - what is YOUR solution? Renewables are not efficient enough to replace coal - if we switch off coal then we equally destroy civilisation and economies just like climate change because renewables are far more expensive and not as efficient as coal. We would effectively be turning off all electricity. I propose nuclear and pumping money at electric cars because they are solutions that you can pump at a government and are efficient, and bring major change quickly! Protest about that, don't pretend we don't know about climate change - we all do!!! I've come up with some - WHAT IS YOUR ACTIONABLE SOLUTION??!!
- weavie 7y ago
  I would question your assertion that we all know there is a problem. I imagine the vast majority of people don't. They may be vaguely aware of climate change, but most people just think surely it can't be serious and it'll be ok, we'll work it out when it does become a problem. Just the other day the UK courts have dismissed any attempt at blocking an extra runway at Heathrow airport. We need this runway to increase the number of flights out of the UK. Good for the economy etc.. If that isn't a symptom of the vast majority of people being in complete denial I don't know what is. Actionable solution no. 1.. don't build more runways.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    The law is the law. The courts can only uphold and interpret what's written. So before we can get to no more runways we need governments that react appropriately to the problem, and build climate change and environmental consequences into laws. Strong laws that restrict and tax carbon, building regulations, transport, well everything.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  It is an actionable solution. Riots got the poll tax repealed. Civil disobedience achieved independence in India, and civil rights in the US. A march from A to B highlights something - and is always easy to ignore. They always are. The aim of XR is not to tell about climate change. Everyone should know about that. The science was settled decades ago. Just about everyone knows what needs to be done, too. Yet governments do nothing but bleat on about an opportunity from shale oil, or some new coal contract. Then bring a little green washing with far future targets, long after they have retired, or outlawing plastic bags. Civil disobedience and intentional law breaking does not aim to tell anyone the problem, it's bloody obvious. It aims to become a permanent and ongoing drain upon resources. Like a tax or a labour strike. To cause actual costs to the system and state, their people and potentially companies. Costs of policing, of removing chained up protesters, of flooding the courts with formerly law-abiding citizens. At some point government must react.
  - SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
    Because of a few great wins in history, we have a rather romantic and rosie notion of civil disobedience, protesting, marching, and general civil disruption. And so they've become well-worn tools of the modern activist. Its worth questioning whether these are the best tools to use in so many circumstances. Its a very real possibility that the gamble doesn't pay off. It might even drive polarization and skepticism among the very people you need to reach the most. It may just create civil unrest and reduce our resources, leaving us less able to fight climate change. Or a few smart people who might otherwise be able to contribute to a solution, end up spending their valuable time in jail, instead.
    - jquery 7y ago
      Survivor bias in civil disobedience makes some people think that “on average” it produces positive results, especially when the cause is “just” (which every violent extremist does, of course). Anyone even casually familiar with history would blush at such arrogance.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      > rosie notion of civil disobedience, protesting, marching, and general civil disruption Personally I see protesting and marching as a nice Saturday afternoon out that achieves precisely nothing. Just look what the massive march and demo against the Iraq war achieved - nowt. It's important not to conflate them with civil disobedience which has very different aims and tactics. It's being an ongoing thorn in the side of the state that has historically made a difference. I certainly don't see that as a well-worn tool of the modern activist - it's a forgotten tactic, replaced by one-off marches or demos, and the online petition. Which achieve almost nothing. If a few smart people feel it's gone too long being ignored that they are now willing to risk prison, well good on them. If they're smart enough and presentable enough to not be easily dismissed as eco-nuts by the right wing media, they can often achieve positive press for their aims. It's hard to dismiss a retiree with 40 years in industry, doctor, or IT consultant quite so easily. It remains to be seen if the gamble and assessment of public opinion is correct. For both XR and the school strikes, the public reaction has appeared hugely positive so far - far more so than I would have expected. Which is a problem for a government that would prefer not to act.
- justin66 7y ago
  > We all know there is a problem. Absolutely no-one denies it. You keep angrily repeating this, and it's very obviously wrong. Nobody is going to take you seriously if you keep doing this, even if they're natural allies in whatever cause you're part of.
SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
I'm sure the for-profit prison system would like this as well.
jquery 7y ago
At least you’re open about your naked extremism. Horseshoe theory in action, except of course your cause is righteous and just, unlike Those People on the Other Side.