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We have yet to see another Stalin with all this new tech. Something I hope we never see. I wish Gulag Archipelago was history 101 at university.

raquo 7y ago
New Stalin style dictatorships are unlikely to arise in developed countries. A gradual descend into modern-Russia style governance is much more likely. We have learned a lot about building stable power structures in the last 50 years. You don't need to have a death grip on everything in the country. A much softer touch is the technique of choice of modern oppressive regimes. Why disallow other parties when you can just make sure the right party always wins? Why get rid of capitalism if you can just pick the winners? Why censor information when you can drown the airwaves in fake news? Why purge dissidents if they have no power to change things? Why control what people do when you can control what people want to do?
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  that feels more theoretical. Looks like they are close to failing in Venezuela, for example.
  - raquo 7y ago
    Eh, I don't really think we're about to see a stable government in Venezuela, let alone a stable Stalin-grade dictatorship.
skrebbel 7y ago
Xi Jinping is trying pretty hard.
- _Codemonkeyism 7y ago
  Stalin is 10M deads in the lead.
  - ben_w 7y ago
    I thought most of those deaths were indirectly, resulting from agricultural and economic policies and forced relocations and only a relatively (10%) small number of executions? If you include economic causes, you might need to include the excess mortality of systematically impoverished communities in western nations — and I don’t just mean “PoC in the USA”, as I can point to a UK study claiming the government’s austerity policies since 2010 have caused 120,000 excess deaths: https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/health-and-social-care-spending-cuts-linked-to-120000-excess-deaths-in-england/ https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/health-and-social-care-... Also, if those deaths were related to economic policies, you probably have to weigh them by population size. Obviously that’s still a million executions more than most; I am not defending him, this is just about making it an apples-to-apples comparison.
    - estsauver 7y ago
      There's some evidence it was not accidental: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#Genocide_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#Genocide_question
    - _Codemonkeyism 7y ago
      It looks like something of ~7M from the famines, ~2M from Gulags, ~1M from executions, uncertain number from torture. Numbers from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet... I'd say if famines are the cheapest way, many dictators with a genocide mind set would do that if possible.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago
  Our politicians are more than happy to let the Chinese beta test authoritarian technology on their citizenry before we can deploy the same in what remains of Western democracies. We criticize them just a little, by principle, but as soon as the tech proves effective at controlling population, we adopt the tech "because it works". "But at what?", one may ask...

raquo 7y ago

New Stalin style dictatorships are unlikely to arise in developed countries. A gradual descend into modern-Russia style governance is much more likely. We have learned a lot about building stable power structures in the last 50 years. You don't need to have a death grip on everything in the country. A much softer touch is the technique of choice of modern oppressive regimes. Why disallow other parties when you can just make sure the right party always wins? Why get rid of capitalism if you can just pick the winners? Why censor information when you can drown the airwaves in fake news? Why purge dissidents if they have no power to change things? Why control what people do when you can control what people want to do?

NotSammyHagar 7y ago
that feels more theoretical. Looks like they are close to failing in Venezuela, for example.
- raquo 7y ago
  Eh, I don't really think we're about to see a stable government in Venezuela, let alone a stable Stalin-grade dictatorship.

skrebbel 7y ago

Xi Jinping is trying pretty hard.

_Codemonkeyism 7y ago
Stalin is 10M deads in the lead.
- ben_w 7y ago
  I thought most of those deaths were indirectly, resulting from agricultural and economic policies and forced relocations and only a relatively (10%) small number of executions? If you include economic causes, you might need to include the excess mortality of systematically impoverished communities in western nations — and I don’t just mean “PoC in the USA”, as I can point to a UK study claiming the government’s austerity policies since 2010 have caused 120,000 excess deaths: https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/health-and-social-care-spending-cuts-linked-to-120000-excess-deaths-in-england/ https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/health-and-social-care-... Also, if those deaths were related to economic policies, you probably have to weigh them by population size. Obviously that’s still a million executions more than most; I am not defending him, this is just about making it an apples-to-apples comparison.
  - estsauver 7y ago
    There's some evidence it was not accidental: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#Genocide_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#Genocide_question
  - _Codemonkeyism 7y ago
    It looks like something of ~7M from the famines, ~2M from Gulags, ~1M from executions, uncertain number from torture. Numbers from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet... I'd say if famines are the cheapest way, many dictators with a genocide mind set would do that if possible.
rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago
Our politicians are more than happy to let the Chinese beta test authoritarian technology on their citizenry before we can deploy the same in what remains of Western democracies. We criticize them just a little, by principle, but as soon as the tech proves effective at controlling population, we adopt the tech "because it works". "But at what?", one may ask...