5 ms·

Who Are the Biggest Bullshitters?

8 points by inflatableDodo 8y ago

ThePadawan 8y ago
Real estate agents, surely.
- steveeq1 8y ago
  Lets not forget lawyers, salesmen, and financial "advisors".
meeeeeee 8y ago
I am!
smt88 8y ago
The methodology here is awful, and no one should draw broad conclusions from the results. > They inserted a section into the questionnaire which asked students how well they understood a collection of 16 mathematical concepts. Some were familiar, such as “polygon” and “probability”, but three were fake: “proper number”, “subjunctive scaling” and “declarative fraction”. Proper number and declarative fraction sound like real things. I speak English natively, and it would take me a while to decide whether those are simple childhood-level concepts or not. For someone who is not expecting a fake option or who doesn't speak English natively, it's likely you'd be confused by the familiarity of the wording. I personally can't think of a fraction-related concept that I don't understand, so I could see myself saying I understand declarative fractions with no intent to mislead someone. Further, the subjects of the experiment are teenagers. That's one narrow band of ages, and it says little about the rest of the country. This is a study designed to get attention and media coverage, not to actually reveal some useful truth.
- eesmith 8y ago
  When did you learn about continued fractions, Egyptian fractions, and pandigital fractions? I certainly didn't know about them at the age of 15. The best bullshitters think they are telling the truth.
  - smt88 8y ago
    None of those were on the questionnaire. The minor difference in wording is significant. > The best bullshitters think they are telling the truth. This redefines bullshit so broadly that we're not even having the same conversation. It's also an uncharitable way to view people who are just wrong, as we all are about many things. How would you feel if someone said that to you the next time you were wrong? Or are you the only person who gets to say things they believe without being accused of lying? Either way, marking an answer on a private, anonymous questionnaire is very different from lying for personal gain.
    - eesmith 8y ago
      I was questioning your statement "I personally can't think of a fraction-related concept that I don't understand". "How would you feel ..." Well, I'm wrong a lot, so I don't often make statements about fully understanding a topic, and when I do, and I'm corrected, I thank them for pointing out that I was wrong, and for teaching me something new. I'll add that "lying for personal gain" is also a redefinition of "bullshitting". The most relevant definitions from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullshit https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullshit are: > 2. (vulgar, slang) False or exaggerated statements made to impress and deceive the listener rather than inform; nonsense. > 3. Statements that may be true but misleading nonetheless.
dang 8y ago
There have been many posts and at least one large thread about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19749130 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19749130 Don't miss the salient fact that it was all a study of 15-year-olds.
kalado 8y ago
This is not saying anything about anyone. It's a school test for children. Bullshitting (or rather guessing) is exactly what you should be doing in this situation so you can try to get some partial points for whatever you might have gotten right. It's saying more about who is disillusioned about the education system and understands how to score well.

ThePadawan 8y ago

Real estate agents, surely.

steveeq1 8y ago
Lets not forget lawyers, salesmen, and financial "advisors".

meeeeeee 8y ago

I am!

smt88 8y ago

The methodology here is awful, and no one should draw broad conclusions from the results. > They inserted a section into the questionnaire which asked students how well they understood a collection of 16 mathematical concepts. Some were familiar, such as “polygon” and “probability”, but three were fake: “proper number”, “subjunctive scaling” and “declarative fraction”. Proper number and declarative fraction sound like real things. I speak English natively, and it would take me a while to decide whether those are simple childhood-level concepts or not. For someone who is not expecting a fake option or who doesn't speak English natively, it's likely you'd be confused by the familiarity of the wording. I personally can't think of a fraction-related concept that I don't understand, so I could see myself saying I understand declarative fractions with no intent to mislead someone. Further, the subjects of the experiment are teenagers. That's one narrow band of ages, and it says little about the rest of the country. This is a study designed to get attention and media coverage, not to actually reveal some useful truth.

eesmith 8y ago
When did you learn about continued fractions, Egyptian fractions, and pandigital fractions? I certainly didn't know about them at the age of 15. The best bullshitters think they are telling the truth.
- smt88 8y ago
  None of those were on the questionnaire. The minor difference in wording is significant. > The best bullshitters think they are telling the truth. This redefines bullshit so broadly that we're not even having the same conversation. It's also an uncharitable way to view people who are just wrong, as we all are about many things. How would you feel if someone said that to you the next time you were wrong? Or are you the only person who gets to say things they believe without being accused of lying? Either way, marking an answer on a private, anonymous questionnaire is very different from lying for personal gain.
  - eesmith 8y ago
    I was questioning your statement "I personally can't think of a fraction-related concept that I don't understand". "How would you feel ..." Well, I'm wrong a lot, so I don't often make statements about fully understanding a topic, and when I do, and I'm corrected, I thank them for pointing out that I was wrong, and for teaching me something new. I'll add that "lying for personal gain" is also a redefinition of "bullshitting". The most relevant definitions from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullshit https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullshit are: > 2. (vulgar, slang) False or exaggerated statements made to impress and deceive the listener rather than inform; nonsense. > 3. Statements that may be true but misleading nonetheless.

dang 8y ago

There have been many posts and at least one large thread about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19749130 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19749130 Don't miss the salient fact that it was all a study of 15-year-olds.

kalado 8y ago

This is not saying anything about anyone. It's a school test for children. Bullshitting (or rather guessing) is exactly what you should be doing in this situation so you can try to get some partial points for whatever you might have gotten right. It's saying more about who is disillusioned about the education system and understands how to score well.