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I think that’s naive. China can just arrest you for using encryption. Same result. (This isn’t limited to China - the US could have similar results with sligh

by MR4D 8y ago

I think that’s naive. China can just arrest you for using encryption. Same result. (This isn’t limited to China - the US could have similar results with slightly differing laws)

emptybits 8y ago
Enter: steganography. Useful under totalitarian regimes, I would think. Unlike the burden required to hide gigs required for large file transactions, hiding mere hundreds of bytes for textual conversations might be feasible. Maybe. Distribution of participating client software might be the problem.
- steelframe 8y ago
  When they discover that you have stenographic tools on your computer, how will they know when to stop torturing you?
  - stale2002 8y ago
    So the real solution is to force everyone to use stenographic tools. Basically, the point is to make it so it is impossible to tell the difference between a normal user and a crypto user. So the only way they could target you is if they target 1 billion other people in the world.
- lolpython 8y ago
  Unfortunately there's already steganography detecting software on the market[0], and it seems they have a branch in China[1]. But that is a little reductionist of me because there are evolving techniques being produced by researchers that are not so easy to detect. For example I recently read about a CNN-based method for hiding data in images that proved much more resilient against detection. [0] https://www.wetstonetech.com/products/stegohunt/ https://www.wetstonetech.com/products/stegohunt/ [1] https://www.wetstonetech.com/corporate/channel-partners/ https://www.wetstonetech.com/corporate/channel-partners/
- adzm 8y ago
  Steganography can be trivially detectable though if someone actually starts looking for it. The problem is that making it accessible makes it stand out.
- MR4D 8y ago
  As long as you don’t share it in a picture of Winnie the Pooh! LOL!
saagarjha 8y ago
They can't arrest everyone. Make encryption widespread and unquestionably superior to unencrypted communication and I don't think the government can do much to stop it.
- mamon 8y ago
  According to Wikipedia [1] Stalin actually came pretty close to arresting everyone. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Brief_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Brief_history
edoo 8y ago
Encryption should be a free speech issue, assuming we keep free speech.
stale2002 8y ago
Not if literally everything is using encryption. The point of encryption and plausible deniability, is to force everyone to use encryption, so that if authoritarian regimes want to punish people, then they have to screw over everyone, including completely innocent internet users.

by MR4D 8y ago

I think that’s naive. China can just arrest you for using encryption. Same result. (This isn’t limited to China - the US could have similar results with slightly differing laws)

emptybits 8y ago

Enter: steganography. Useful under totalitarian regimes, I would think. Unlike the burden required to hide gigs required for large file transactions, hiding mere hundreds of bytes for textual conversations might be feasible. Maybe. Distribution of participating client software might be the problem.

steelframe 8y ago
When they discover that you have stenographic tools on your computer, how will they know when to stop torturing you?
- stale2002 8y ago
  So the real solution is to force everyone to use stenographic tools. Basically, the point is to make it so it is impossible to tell the difference between a normal user and a crypto user. So the only way they could target you is if they target 1 billion other people in the world.
lolpython 8y ago
Unfortunately there's already steganography detecting software on the market[0], and it seems they have a branch in China[1]. But that is a little reductionist of me because there are evolving techniques being produced by researchers that are not so easy to detect. For example I recently read about a CNN-based method for hiding data in images that proved much more resilient against detection. [0] https://www.wetstonetech.com/products/stegohunt/ https://www.wetstonetech.com/products/stegohunt/ [1] https://www.wetstonetech.com/corporate/channel-partners/ https://www.wetstonetech.com/corporate/channel-partners/
adzm 8y ago
Steganography can be trivially detectable though if someone actually starts looking for it. The problem is that making it accessible makes it stand out.
MR4D 8y ago
As long as you don’t share it in a picture of Winnie the Pooh! LOL!

saagarjha 8y ago

They can't arrest everyone. Make encryption widespread and unquestionably superior to unencrypted communication and I don't think the government can do much to stop it.

mamon 8y ago
According to Wikipedia [1] Stalin actually came pretty close to arresting everyone. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Brief_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Brief_history

edoo 8y ago

Encryption should be a free speech issue, assuming we keep free speech.

stale2002 8y ago

Not if literally everything is using encryption. The point of encryption and plausible deniability, is to force everyone to use encryption, so that if authoritarian regimes want to punish people, then they have to screw over everyone, including completely innocent internet users.