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The number of anti-TurboTax articles lately ... I get it, filing taxes could be easier but it isn't - on the scale of things to worry about, is it really that

The number of anti-TurboTax articles lately ... I get it, filing taxes could be easier but it isn't - on the scale of things to worry about, is it really that important? What about on the scale of things that government is inefficient at - does this rank in the top 1000? Again, I'm not saying we can't improve it, and I agree with calls for the IRS (and CRA) to send pre-filled forms. What I'm calling into question is the outsize coverage that this particular issue got over the last few weeks as certain Democratic nominees (Elizabeth Warren) decided this was the path to their relevance.

GordonS 8y ago
I'm a Brit, so ab outsider - but isn't the big issue here that a private company has been able to successfully lobby to get laws changed to make it illegal for tax filing to be free? I'm not aufait with the US tax system, so please correct me if I've got that wrong.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  > isn't the big issue here that a private company has been able to successfully lobby to get laws changed to make it illegal for tax filing to be free? Yes, it's this exactly. Also, in my opinion, this is a great example of how a lot of the corruption of government by corporations is done, and is easy for pretty much anybody to understand.
- macspoofing 8y ago
  >but isn't the big issue here that a private company has been able to successfully lobby to get laws changed to make it illegal for tax filing to be free? Why would it be a 'big issue'? There is no human right to super easy tax filing. Interest groups, whether they be corps, or unions or activists, will lobby to get laws they like passed. Par for course whether you're in United States or Britain.
  - GordonS 8y ago
    > Why would it be a 'big issue'? Let me flip that around - why wouldn't it be? Surely corporations shouldn't have the power to change laws to let them squeeze citizens for every cent? Surely laws should be there for the benefit of the populace? > lobby to get laws they like passed. Par for course whether you're in United States or Britain Lobbying is indeed a thing in the UK, but not remotely to the degree it is in the US. And on this specific issue, there isn't even a remote possibility that the UK would legislate against free tax filing, regardless of ludicrous lobbying (and I say this as someone with a very low opinion of UK politics).
    - macspoofing 8y ago
      >Let me flip that around - why wouldn't it be? Because it isn't a big deal. >Surely corporations shouldn't have the power to change laws to let them squeeze citizens for every cent? They don't have the power to change laws. Congress makes laws. Corporations certainly have a right to lobby government, just like unions, just like citizens, just like activists, just like non-profits. >Lobbying is indeed a thing in the UK, but not remotely to the degree it is in the US I'm not sure what standard you use to make this assertion. >And on this specific issue, there isn't even a remote possibility that the UK would legislate against free tax filing What are you talking about? You can file for free in United States. That's not at issue. People are complaining that IRS doesn't send a simpler pre-filled tax form. They are also complaining that TurboTax and H&R block does not advertise free filing options [1]. [1] https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f...
maxsilver 8y ago
> I get it, filing taxes could be easier but it isn't No, I don't think you really get it. This isn't about taxes. The problem is that a private corporation has corrupted the federal government to such an absurd extreme, that it has abdicated it's responsibility to it's own citizens. That's why this is such a big deal. The fact that it happens to be manifesting through tax filing is a relevant detail, but not really the point specifically. > What about on the scale of things that government is inefficient at Again, you don't get it. The government is not inefficient. In fact, the government is so hyper-efficient at solving this problem, that private companies had to draft legislation outlawing the government from solving this problem, just to protect their inefficient lazy duopoly.
- macspoofing 8y ago
  >The problem is that a private corporation has corrupted the federal government to such an absurd extreme, that it has abdicated it's responsibility to it's own citizens. I think you're being a little hysterical on this point. It isn't that big of a deal. No human rights have been infringed on. >The government is not inefficient.In fact, the government is so hyper-efficient at solving this problem, that private companies had to draft legislation outlawing the government from solving this problem, just to protect their inefficient lazy duopoly. The government is SO efficient that they are able to be corrupted by a tax company. And not just any government, a superpower with a $20 trillion economy!! Here's the thing - to you this is an outlier, to me this is a intrinsic property of every government. That is, the fact that governments will draft policies that aren't the most efficient, or may not be in the best interest of the largest number of people is normal (and not necessarily a bad thing)!! That is what makes government inefficient - because being a gatekeeper, they are very susceptible to attempts of corruption - so all kinds of interest groups, from corps, to unions, to activists, will attempt to skew it towards their positions.

GordonS 8y ago

I'm a Brit, so ab outsider - but isn't the big issue here that a private company has been able to successfully lobby to get laws changed to make it illegal for tax filing to be free? I'm not aufait with the US tax system, so please correct me if I've got that wrong.

JohnFen 8y ago
> isn't the big issue here that a private company has been able to successfully lobby to get laws changed to make it illegal for tax filing to be free? Yes, it's this exactly. Also, in my opinion, this is a great example of how a lot of the corruption of government by corporations is done, and is easy for pretty much anybody to understand.
macspoofing 8y ago
>but isn't the big issue here that a private company has been able to successfully lobby to get laws changed to make it illegal for tax filing to be free? Why would it be a 'big issue'? There is no human right to super easy tax filing. Interest groups, whether they be corps, or unions or activists, will lobby to get laws they like passed. Par for course whether you're in United States or Britain.
- GordonS 8y ago
  > Why would it be a 'big issue'? Let me flip that around - why wouldn't it be? Surely corporations shouldn't have the power to change laws to let them squeeze citizens for every cent? Surely laws should be there for the benefit of the populace? > lobby to get laws they like passed. Par for course whether you're in United States or Britain Lobbying is indeed a thing in the UK, but not remotely to the degree it is in the US. And on this specific issue, there isn't even a remote possibility that the UK would legislate against free tax filing, regardless of ludicrous lobbying (and I say this as someone with a very low opinion of UK politics).
  - macspoofing 8y ago
    >Let me flip that around - why wouldn't it be? Because it isn't a big deal. >Surely corporations shouldn't have the power to change laws to let them squeeze citizens for every cent? They don't have the power to change laws. Congress makes laws. Corporations certainly have a right to lobby government, just like unions, just like citizens, just like activists, just like non-profits. >Lobbying is indeed a thing in the UK, but not remotely to the degree it is in the US I'm not sure what standard you use to make this assertion. >And on this specific issue, there isn't even a remote possibility that the UK would legislate against free tax filing What are you talking about? You can file for free in United States. That's not at issue. People are complaining that IRS doesn't send a simpler pre-filled tax form. They are also complaining that TurboTax and H&R block does not advertise free filing options [1]. [1] https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f...

maxsilver 8y ago

> I get it, filing taxes could be easier but it isn't No, I don't think you really get it. This isn't about taxes. The problem is that a private corporation has corrupted the federal government to such an absurd extreme, that it has abdicated it's responsibility to it's own citizens. That's why this is such a big deal. The fact that it happens to be manifesting through tax filing is a relevant detail, but not really the point specifically. > What about on the scale of things that government is inefficient at Again, you don't get it. The government is not inefficient. In fact, the government is so hyper-efficient at solving this problem, that private companies had to draft legislation outlawing the government from solving this problem, just to protect their inefficient lazy duopoly.

macspoofing 8y ago
>The problem is that a private corporation has corrupted the federal government to such an absurd extreme, that it has abdicated it's responsibility to it's own citizens. I think you're being a little hysterical on this point. It isn't that big of a deal. No human rights have been infringed on. >The government is not inefficient.In fact, the government is so hyper-efficient at solving this problem, that private companies had to draft legislation outlawing the government from solving this problem, just to protect their inefficient lazy duopoly. The government is SO efficient that they are able to be corrupted by a tax company. And not just any government, a superpower with a $20 trillion economy!! Here's the thing - to you this is an outlier, to me this is a intrinsic property of every government. That is, the fact that governments will draft policies that aren't the most efficient, or may not be in the best interest of the largest number of people is normal (and not necessarily a bad thing)!! That is what makes government inefficient - because being a gatekeeper, they are very susceptible to attempts of corruption - so all kinds of interest groups, from corps, to unions, to activists, will attempt to skew it towards their positions.