5 ms·

It's completely untrue that "no one who has the ability to not be autistic, would choose to be"; plenty of autistic people are happy to be the way they are and

by gjm11 8y ago

It's completely untrue that "no one who has the ability to not be autistic, would choose to be"; plenty of autistic people are happy to be the way they are and would not want to change. (Pedantic note 1: If you're super-duper-literal about what you said, and take it to refer only to people who actually have the ability not to autistic, rather than speculating on what would happen if autistic people had the ability not to be, then it might be true. Though I'd guess it still isn't; I bet there are some not-autistic people who would like to be slightly autistic.) (Pedantic note 2: I suppose it's possible, for all I know, that autistic people who say they wouldn't want to be "neurotypical" are actually lying. But I don't see any reason to think they are.)

mediocrejoker 8y ago
I can think of one reason to lie; to lessen the emotional pain of "neurotypicals" looking down on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanisms
- myhf 8y ago
  Of course, there's just as much motivation to tell the opposite lie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(sociology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(sociology)
umvi 8y ago
> plenty of autistic people are happy to be the way they are and would not want to change. How can you objectively claim to prefer autism over non-autism if you've never experienced the latter? It's like me being completely content with my mechanical Ford Mustang and refusing to switch to a computerized car on the grounds that I'm happy with my Mustang and it's impossible for me to imagine what driving a computerized car could be like. I've never tried a computerized car that has lane assist and anti-lock brakes, mind you, but I'm just afraid I would like it less than my trusty old Mustang I've used my whole life.
- fwip 8y ago
  How can you objectively claim to prefer non-autism over autism?
  - umvi 8y ago
    I can't; the only way to have objective preference is by experiencing both for the same period of time before choosing
    - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
      Which is relevant to what people would choose, lacking that experience, how exactly? Because that was the topic being discussed ...
      - umvi 8y ago
        Presumably in this hypothetical situation where you can "cure" autism, you can also "uncure" autism. My point is that austistic people who choose to deliberately stay autistic without experiencing what it is like to be non-autistic are making a biased choice (likely rooted in fear of the unknown). The objective course of action is to experience being non-autistic for a few years before deciding whether you actually like being autistic...
        fwip 8y ago
        And the objective course of action for any neurotypical person is to spend a few years autistic. I imagine you'll be first in line to sign up, given your penchant for objectivity.
        zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
        > Presumably in this hypothetical situation where you can "cure" autism, you can also "uncure" autism. For one, I don't see how that's justified. There are plenty of diseases we can't uncure?! And then, the choice to try out non-autism is already a decision to be non-autistic, even if only temporarily. > My point is that austistic people who choose to deliberately stay autistic without experiencing what it is like to be non-autistic are making a biased choice (likely rooted in fear of the unknown). Well, yes, obviously. And how is that relevant, when noone claimed they were making an unbiased decision? > The objective course of action is to experience being on-autistic for a few years before deciding whether you want to "uncure" yourself. More subjective experience doesn't make the decision objective, just better informed. And in any case, it's still besides the point, because noone was making claims about how objective or how informed the decision is? When someone says "Plenty of people don't drink alcohol, and are happy with it, and have no interest in trying alcohol", it's simply a non-sequitur to respond "But the objective course of action is to experience drinking alcohol for a few years." Yes, the decision would be better-informed, but being better informed is not a prerequisie for being happy with what you are doing, nor does the fact that you could try drinking alcohol have any relevance to the assertion that some people just aren't interested.
red75prime 8y ago
It's also untrue that "no one who has the ability to not be deaf, would choose to be". It happens that communities of deaf people resist cochlear implants. A feeling of belonging to a group seems to have major influence on one's opinions.

by gjm11 8y ago

mediocrejoker 8y ago

I can think of one reason to lie; to lessen the emotional pain of "neurotypicals" looking down on them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanisms

myhf 8y ago
Of course, there's just as much motivation to tell the opposite lie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(sociology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(sociology)

umvi 8y ago

> plenty of autistic people are happy to be the way they are and would not want to change. How can you objectively claim to prefer autism over non-autism if you've never experienced the latter? It's like me being completely content with my mechanical Ford Mustang and refusing to switch to a computerized car on the grounds that I'm happy with my Mustang and it's impossible for me to imagine what driving a computerized car could be like. I've never tried a computerized car that has lane assist and anti-lock brakes, mind you, but I'm just afraid I would like it less than my trusty old Mustang I've used my whole life.

fwip 8y ago
How can you objectively claim to prefer non-autism over autism?
- umvi 8y ago
  I can't; the only way to have objective preference is by experiencing both for the same period of time before choosing
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
    Which is relevant to what people would choose, lacking that experience, how exactly? Because that was the topic being discussed ...
    - umvi 8y ago
      Presumably in this hypothetical situation where you can "cure" autism, you can also "uncure" autism. My point is that austistic people who choose to deliberately stay autistic without experiencing what it is like to be non-autistic are making a biased choice (likely rooted in fear of the unknown). The objective course of action is to experience being non-autistic for a few years before deciding whether you actually like being autistic...
      - fwip 8y ago
        And the objective course of action for any neurotypical person is to spend a few years autistic. I imagine you'll be first in line to sign up, given your penchant for objectivity.
      - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
        > Presumably in this hypothetical situation where you can "cure" autism, you can also "uncure" autism. For one, I don't see how that's justified. There are plenty of diseases we can't uncure?! And then, the choice to try out non-autism is already a decision to be non-autistic, even if only temporarily. > My point is that austistic people who choose to deliberately stay autistic without experiencing what it is like to be non-autistic are making a biased choice (likely rooted in fear of the unknown). Well, yes, obviously. And how is that relevant, when noone claimed they were making an unbiased decision? > The objective course of action is to experience being on-autistic for a few years before deciding whether you want to "uncure" yourself. More subjective experience doesn't make the decision objective, just better informed. And in any case, it's still besides the point, because noone was making claims about how objective or how informed the decision is? When someone says "Plenty of people don't drink alcohol, and are happy with it, and have no interest in trying alcohol", it's simply a non-sequitur to respond "But the objective course of action is to experience drinking alcohol for a few years." Yes, the decision would be better-informed, but being better informed is not a prerequisie for being happy with what you are doing, nor does the fact that you could try drinking alcohol have any relevance to the assertion that some people just aren't interested.

red75prime 8y ago

It's also untrue that "no one who has the ability to not be deaf, would choose to be". It happens that communities of deaf people resist cochlear implants. A feeling of belonging to a group seems to have major influence on one's opinions.