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I don't think I could connect Jones or Yiannopolous specifically to anything, just as I couldn't connect, say, Andrew Wakefield to any single specific case of p

I don't think I could connect Jones or Yiannopolous specifically to anything, just as I couldn't connect, say, Andrew Wakefield to any single specific case of parents forgoing vaxines. I also think the ideas that Jones and Yiannopolous promote are easily seen to be harmful. Yiannopolous has promoted violence against journalists and associated himself with white supremacist movements. Jones has promoted the harassment of many victims of crimes and generally undermined public trust of institutions (including limited support of anti-vax views). I suppose it's up to you if you feel those ideas could cause harm - I feel they (and other ideas both have promoted) do.

chimpburger 8y ago
> Yiannopolous has promoted violence against journalists and associated himself with white supremacist movements. Yiannopolous is Jewish and is married to a black man. White supremacists hate Yiannopolous
- razakel 8y ago
  >Yiannopolous is Jewish and is married to a black man. He's Catholic, nobody has ever seen his husband, and there is no public record of his marriage.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    While a practicing Roman Catholic, Yiannopolous also claims to be Jewish (citing his maternal grandmother to support this; I think this is a claim to ethnic not religious connection.)
  - chimpburger 8y ago
    Jewish ethnically. You personally haven't seen his husband, and you personally haven't seen a public record of his marriage. OK, so he's a white supremacist who pretends to be Jewish and pretends to have a black husband. Totally makes sense. Seriously, there is no evidence that he has white supremacist beliefs. He hates political correctness and radical leftist ideas. The SJW's/leftists are offended by his criticism and call him a Nazi. Everyone who disagrees with leftists is called a Nazi.
    - razakel 8y ago
      >You personally haven't seen his husband, and you personally haven't seen a public record of his marriage. Find one credible source of his husband existing. I'm sure they must have friends and family saying how happy they are together, right? But... no. Somehow journalists haven't managed to turn up anything. Or, maybe he's really the kept boy of one of Milo's sugar daddies. Who maybe died of a drug overdose. >He hates political correctness and radical leftist ideas. For some strange reason, when your entire shtick is to be as offensive as possible, people get offended.
      - chimpburger 8y ago
        > Find one credible source of his husband existing. I'm sure they must have friends and family saying how happy they are together, right? But... no. Somehow journalists haven't managed to turn up anything. I'll take his word for it. I'm not delusional/paranoid/schizophrenic/obsessed enough to have such motivations.
        razakel 8y ago
        >I'll take his word for it. I'm not delusional/paranoid/schizophrenic/obsessed enough to have such motivations. Why would no journalists or paparazzi found anything? Most people actually go out in public with their spouses.
        chimpburger 8y ago
        There is zero evidence that he has white supremacist beliefs. Why haven't journalists found any evidence to the contrary? I don't care who he is married to. It is utterly irrelevant, trivial, small minded, petty nonsense.
      - reallydude 8y ago
        http://chicago.gopride.com/news/article.cfm/articleid/89449209 http://chicago.gopride.com/news/article.cfm/articleid/894492... AFAIK, his partner's name is John Lewis. That being said, marriage licenses are private for obvious reasons and apply to that partnership as outlined in https://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/about-civil-unions/ https://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/about-civil-unions/ Relevant: > The Department of Health can provide certified copies of legal records to verify civil union status in Hawaii to those who are entitled to receive copies pursuant to state law I got a chuckle from reading that the Domestic Union in Hawaii was signed by Governor Abercrombie, admittedly.
naasking 8y ago
> Andrew Wakefield to any single specific case of parents forgoing vaxines. You're right, you can't because the anti-vaxx movement is as old as vaccines themselves. Wakefield's license was revoked for actually legitimate reasons. For his actions in falsifying data, not for expressing the idea that vaccines cause autism. > I also think the ideas that Jones and Yiannopolous promote are easily seen to be harmful. Yiannopolous has promoted violence against journalists and associated himself with white supremacist movements. Incitement to violence is a crime. We have processes for reporting crimes and seeing justice is done. > I suppose it's up to you if you feel those ideas could cause harm - I feel they (and other ideas both have promoted) do. "Ideas causing harm" is exactly the wrong way to look at it. Actions cause harm. Sometimes ideas lead to action, but we should always police the action, not the thoughts. We start down a dangerous path to thoughtcrime as soon as someone is no longer permitted to think or express an idea.
- DanBC 8y ago
  > Wakefield's license was revoked for actually legitimate reasons. For his actions in falsifying data, not for expressing the idea that vaccines cause autism. It's useful to read the entire thing. https://www.scribd.com/doc/25983372/FACTS-WWSM-280110-Final-Complete-Corrected https://www.scribd.com/doc/25983372/FACTS-WWSM-280110-Final-... But imagine a doctor that merely says "Don't get vaccines, they cause autism" but doesn't falsify any data. That doctor is probably going to be erased from the English register.
  - naasking 8y ago
    > But imagine a doctor that merely says "Don't get vaccines, they cause autism" but doesn't falsify any data. That doctor is probably going to be erased from the English register. Because that doctor is also falsifying data, namely, the data that they're presenting to their patient so they can make an informed decision.
  - razakel 8y ago
    >But imagine a doctor that merely says "Don't get vaccines, they cause autism" but doesn't falsify any data. That doctor is probably going to be erased from the English register. No, but they would likely be censured. A doctor has to spectacularly screw up to get struck off. It's not done lightly. One obstetrician accidentally decapitated a baby during birth and kept her licence. Wakefield faked data, concealed two financial conflicts of interest, and ordered painful, invasive procedures (spinal taps and colonoscopies) on severely autistic children that were not clinically indicated and that he did not have the training to interpret. He even paid children at his son's birthday party for blood samples, then laughed about them crying during a later talk. That is not the sort of man I want practicing medicine.
holler 8y ago
is there evidence that Yiannopolus associated himself with white supremacists? because every piece of material I’ve seen has been about free-speech and social-justice, often questioning the said association created by media
- xyz0 8y ago
  "Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled White Nationalism Into The Mainstream" (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/heres-h...) Here's one of many relevant excerpts: > These new emails and documents, however, clearly show that Breitbart does more than tolerate the most hate-filled, racist voices of the alt-right. It thrives on them, fueling and being fueled by some of the most toxic beliefs on the political spectrum — and clearing the way for them to enter the American mainstream. > It’s a relationship illustrated most starkly by a previously unreleased April 2016 video in which Yiannopoulos sings “America the Beautiful” in a Dallas karaoke bar as admirers, including the white nationalist Richard Spencer, raise their arms in Nazi salutes.
  - Pimpus 8y ago
    Did you seriously just link to Buzzfeed? No further comment.
    - shehryarrr 8y ago
      Buzzfeed and Buzzfeed News are very different. Your dismissal is pretty ignorant.
      - Splognosticus 8y ago
        Nah, guys like this just find video evidence kinda inconvenient since it gives up the game.
      - whenchamenia 8y ago
        They seem to be converging in quality, based on sloppy biased recent articles and sensationalized headlines from the latter. I think not differentiating the branding better was a mistake, considering buzzfeed is synonymous with clickbait.
BickNowstrom 8y ago
Jones never promoted the harassment of victims of crimes. Can you support your statements with some direct quotes? Or are you promoting the harassment of Jones with unfounded lies? Undermining the public trust of institutions is alive and well in the discourse of the US president, who openly erodes trust in the media, the FBI, the DNC, and the IC (including limited support of anti-vax views https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/449525268529815552?lang=en https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/44952526852981555...). Should the president enjoy protection against de-platforming when others get banned for less?
- elliekelly 8y ago
  - De La Rosa v. Alex Jones et al. (D-1-GN-18-001842) - Heslin v. Alex Jones et al. (D-1-GN-18-001835) - Fontaine v. Alex Jones et al.(D-1-GN-18-001605) - Scarlett Lewis vs. Alex Jones, InfoWars LLC et al. (D-1-GN-18-006623)
  - BickNowstrom 8y ago
    I am familiar with those lawsuits. Alex Jones did not promote harassment. He did not even factually conclude that Sandy Hook was a hoax, just floated the possibility. He reported on anomalies, on the conspiracy, on using Sandy Hook as a pretext to take away guns, on Adam Lanza probably using big pharma drugs. He stated that he understands why people would see Sandy Hook as a hoax, because history shows other events have been staged to further a political agenda. Alex Jones was himself a victim of the media, who put weeks long pressure on SV tech companies and made it look like Alex Jones was sending his followers to harass the victims, long after Alex concluded it was not a hoax, and that Adam Lanza was the killer. They purposely took his statements and unhinged rants out of context and painted him as a transphobic, violence instigator, and maker of death threats. The trick to attack free speech that is opposed to yours, is to make it seem like violence instigation or racism, so then it does not deserve the protection of free speech. The other is to put pressure on advertisers and commercial platforms and make them guilty by association. We've seen both of those tricks and they are dangerous and spell trouble for the future.
    - 8y ago
XorNot 8y ago
The parents of Sandy Hook victims receive harassment and death threats to this day because of Alex Jones promoting the narrative that they're "crisis actors". He does ongoing, tangible harm.

chimpburger 8y ago

> Yiannopolous has promoted violence against journalists and associated himself with white supremacist movements. Yiannopolous is Jewish and is married to a black man. White supremacists hate Yiannopolous

razakel 8y ago
>Yiannopolous is Jewish and is married to a black man. He's Catholic, nobody has ever seen his husband, and there is no public record of his marriage.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  While a practicing Roman Catholic, Yiannopolous also claims to be Jewish (citing his maternal grandmother to support this; I think this is a claim to ethnic not religious connection.)
- chimpburger 8y ago
  Jewish ethnically. You personally haven't seen his husband, and you personally haven't seen a public record of his marriage. OK, so he's a white supremacist who pretends to be Jewish and pretends to have a black husband. Totally makes sense. Seriously, there is no evidence that he has white supremacist beliefs. He hates political correctness and radical leftist ideas. The SJW's/leftists are offended by his criticism and call him a Nazi. Everyone who disagrees with leftists is called a Nazi.
  - razakel 8y ago
    >You personally haven't seen his husband, and you personally haven't seen a public record of his marriage. Find one credible source of his husband existing. I'm sure they must have friends and family saying how happy they are together, right? But... no. Somehow journalists haven't managed to turn up anything. Or, maybe he's really the kept boy of one of Milo's sugar daddies. Who maybe died of a drug overdose. >He hates political correctness and radical leftist ideas. For some strange reason, when your entire shtick is to be as offensive as possible, people get offended.
    - chimpburger 8y ago
      > Find one credible source of his husband existing. I'm sure they must have friends and family saying how happy they are together, right? But... no. Somehow journalists haven't managed to turn up anything. I'll take his word for it. I'm not delusional/paranoid/schizophrenic/obsessed enough to have such motivations.
      - razakel 8y ago
        >I'll take his word for it. I'm not delusional/paranoid/schizophrenic/obsessed enough to have such motivations. Why would no journalists or paparazzi found anything? Most people actually go out in public with their spouses.
        chimpburger 8y ago
        There is zero evidence that he has white supremacist beliefs. Why haven't journalists found any evidence to the contrary? I don't care who he is married to. It is utterly irrelevant, trivial, small minded, petty nonsense.
    - reallydude 8y ago
      http://chicago.gopride.com/news/article.cfm/articleid/89449209 http://chicago.gopride.com/news/article.cfm/articleid/894492... AFAIK, his partner's name is John Lewis. That being said, marriage licenses are private for obvious reasons and apply to that partnership as outlined in https://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/about-civil-unions/ https://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/about-civil-unions/ Relevant: > The Department of Health can provide certified copies of legal records to verify civil union status in Hawaii to those who are entitled to receive copies pursuant to state law I got a chuckle from reading that the Domestic Union in Hawaii was signed by Governor Abercrombie, admittedly.

naasking 8y ago

> Andrew Wakefield to any single specific case of parents forgoing vaxines. You're right, you can't because the anti-vaxx movement is as old as vaccines themselves. Wakefield's license was revoked for actually legitimate reasons. For his actions in falsifying data, not for expressing the idea that vaccines cause autism. > I also think the ideas that Jones and Yiannopolous promote are easily seen to be harmful. Yiannopolous has promoted violence against journalists and associated himself with white supremacist movements. Incitement to violence is a crime. We have processes for reporting crimes and seeing justice is done. > I suppose it's up to you if you feel those ideas could cause harm - I feel they (and other ideas both have promoted) do. "Ideas causing harm" is exactly the wrong way to look at it. Actions cause harm. Sometimes ideas lead to action, but we should always police the action, not the thoughts. We start down a dangerous path to thoughtcrime as soon as someone is no longer permitted to think or express an idea.

DanBC 8y ago
> Wakefield's license was revoked for actually legitimate reasons. For his actions in falsifying data, not for expressing the idea that vaccines cause autism. It's useful to read the entire thing. https://www.scribd.com/doc/25983372/FACTS-WWSM-280110-Final-Complete-Corrected https://www.scribd.com/doc/25983372/FACTS-WWSM-280110-Final-... But imagine a doctor that merely says "Don't get vaccines, they cause autism" but doesn't falsify any data. That doctor is probably going to be erased from the English register.
- naasking 8y ago
  > But imagine a doctor that merely says "Don't get vaccines, they cause autism" but doesn't falsify any data. That doctor is probably going to be erased from the English register. Because that doctor is also falsifying data, namely, the data that they're presenting to their patient so they can make an informed decision.
- razakel 8y ago
  >But imagine a doctor that merely says "Don't get vaccines, they cause autism" but doesn't falsify any data. That doctor is probably going to be erased from the English register. No, but they would likely be censured. A doctor has to spectacularly screw up to get struck off. It's not done lightly. One obstetrician accidentally decapitated a baby during birth and kept her licence. Wakefield faked data, concealed two financial conflicts of interest, and ordered painful, invasive procedures (spinal taps and colonoscopies) on severely autistic children that were not clinically indicated and that he did not have the training to interpret. He even paid children at his son's birthday party for blood samples, then laughed about them crying during a later talk. That is not the sort of man I want practicing medicine.

holler 8y ago

is there evidence that Yiannopolus associated himself with white supremacists? because every piece of material I’ve seen has been about free-speech and social-justice, often questioning the said association created by media

xyz0 8y ago
"Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled White Nationalism Into The Mainstream" (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/heres-h...) Here's one of many relevant excerpts: > These new emails and documents, however, clearly show that Breitbart does more than tolerate the most hate-filled, racist voices of the alt-right. It thrives on them, fueling and being fueled by some of the most toxic beliefs on the political spectrum — and clearing the way for them to enter the American mainstream. > It’s a relationship illustrated most starkly by a previously unreleased April 2016 video in which Yiannopoulos sings “America the Beautiful” in a Dallas karaoke bar as admirers, including the white nationalist Richard Spencer, raise their arms in Nazi salutes.
- Pimpus 8y ago
  Did you seriously just link to Buzzfeed? No further comment.
  - shehryarrr 8y ago
    Buzzfeed and Buzzfeed News are very different. Your dismissal is pretty ignorant.
    - Splognosticus 8y ago
      Nah, guys like this just find video evidence kinda inconvenient since it gives up the game.
    - whenchamenia 8y ago
      They seem to be converging in quality, based on sloppy biased recent articles and sensationalized headlines from the latter. I think not differentiating the branding better was a mistake, considering buzzfeed is synonymous with clickbait.

BickNowstrom 8y ago

Jones never promoted the harassment of victims of crimes. Can you support your statements with some direct quotes? Or are you promoting the harassment of Jones with unfounded lies? Undermining the public trust of institutions is alive and well in the discourse of the US president, who openly erodes trust in the media, the FBI, the DNC, and the IC (including limited support of anti-vax views https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/449525268529815552?lang=en https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/44952526852981555...). Should the president enjoy protection against de-platforming when others get banned for less?

elliekelly 8y ago
- De La Rosa v. Alex Jones et al. (D-1-GN-18-001842) - Heslin v. Alex Jones et al. (D-1-GN-18-001835) - Fontaine v. Alex Jones et al.(D-1-GN-18-001605) - Scarlett Lewis vs. Alex Jones, InfoWars LLC et al. (D-1-GN-18-006623)
- BickNowstrom 8y ago
  I am familiar with those lawsuits. Alex Jones did not promote harassment. He did not even factually conclude that Sandy Hook was a hoax, just floated the possibility. He reported on anomalies, on the conspiracy, on using Sandy Hook as a pretext to take away guns, on Adam Lanza probably using big pharma drugs. He stated that he understands why people would see Sandy Hook as a hoax, because history shows other events have been staged to further a political agenda. Alex Jones was himself a victim of the media, who put weeks long pressure on SV tech companies and made it look like Alex Jones was sending his followers to harass the victims, long after Alex concluded it was not a hoax, and that Adam Lanza was the killer. They purposely took his statements and unhinged rants out of context and painted him as a transphobic, violence instigator, and maker of death threats. The trick to attack free speech that is opposed to yours, is to make it seem like violence instigation or racism, so then it does not deserve the protection of free speech. The other is to put pressure on advertisers and commercial platforms and make them guilty by association. We've seen both of those tricks and they are dangerous and spell trouble for the future.
  - 8y ago

XorNot 8y ago

The parents of Sandy Hook victims receive harassment and death threats to this day because of Alex Jones promoting the narrative that they're "crisis actors". He does ongoing, tangible harm.