7 ms·

The antibiotic industry is broken

46 points by prostoalex 8y ago

neonate 8y ago
https://outline.com/KKTLmL https://outline.com/KKTLmL
adsfqwop 8y ago
Here is another factor to consider that I think many are overlooking: our steadily increasing RF-exposure may be altering the growth rate and antibiotic susceptibility of bacteria and other microorganisms. I don't think many are considering this possibility, and I don't like what I find. It seems RF-radiation, even at non-thermal exposure levels, is able to both alter the growth rate and antibiotic interaction of microorganisms. "Extremely High Frequency Electromagnetic Radiation Enforces Bacterial Effects of Inhibitors and Antibiotics": https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51408122_Extremely_High_Frequency_Electromagnetic_Radiation_Enforces_Bacterial_Effects_of_Inhibitors_and_Antibiotics https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51408122_Extremely_... "Evaluation of the Effect of Radiofrequency Radiation Emitted From Wi-Fi Router and Mobile Phone Simulator on the Antibacterial Susceptibility of Pathogenic Bacteria Listeria monocytogenes and Escherichia coli": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5298474/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5298474/ "Effect of radio-frequency electromagnetic radiation on physiological features of Saccharomyces cerevisiae strain UCM Y-517": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15456218 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15456218 "Preliminary results on the non-thermal effects of 200-350 GHz radiation on the growth rate of S. cerevisiae cells in microcolonies": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12452574 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12452574
- coldtea 8y ago
  You're not supposed to mention RF exposure. You're obviously a tin-foil loony, even if you cite legitimate research papers. All the industry-sponsored studies say its totally harmless... /s
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  That study which mentions routers and wifi seems questionably controlled - increased exposure time decreasing inhibition radius? I would expect that from just time passing would do that - it only mentions the radius shrinking not shrinking at a faster rate. To be frank that sounds like a high school level procedure error. Plus even if taken at face value they admit they only notice the effects on certain strains at certain phases.
  - adsfqwop 8y ago
    Even if it is on certain strains, it means we need to consider what it means on a larger scale. What other strains? What other frequencies? By not considering the possible implications of this interaction, IF TRUE, you may be overlooking something important which needs further study. Or I hope you are not suggesting we just cross our fingers, forget about it, and hope these were all just "high school level errors"?
- gingabriska 8y ago
  This space will have more research in coming days specially after the coming of Pakshi Rajan.
prittgluestick 8y ago
Would widespread use of synthetic meat solve the antibiotics issue (as well as help with global warming)? I have only researched synthetic meat a little bit and am wondering if anyone has more concrete information and opinions.
superpermutat0r 8y ago
Resistant strains rarely come from antibiotics use on humans. Antibiotics abuse in agriculture is what brings rise to superbugs. No better way to develop them than billions of Petri dishes born every year and badly administered end of the line antibiotics.
- cameronbrown 8y ago
  We badly need an alternative to animal agriculture. It takes up huge swathes of space, contributes more to global warming than anything else, and now superbugs? This is terrifying and has far far worse implications than climate change. Imagine if we regress back to time where medical science is useless? - Where even having a child becomes a killer because the antibiotics don't work anymore. I know most people aren't ready to give up meat, but we need to cut production massively and soon. Maybe cloned meat is the answer.
  - strainer 8y ago
    Besides the biological safety issues in mass producing animal flesh detached from an evolved and plenty mysterious natural immune system... Meat gets flavor from animals diet and digestion and overall systematic health. The magic cloned meat fairy should and may well never amount to more than a strange and precarious confusion, about our potential and desirable relationship to food and its environment in crisis.
    - cameronbrown 8y ago
      I'm not saying cloned meat is the answer, just that it could be an answer. Is there any reason not to try?
  - coldtea 8y ago
    > We badly need an alternative to animal agriculture. We could start by eating way less meat, the amount that our ancestors ate more or less, and that doctors advice (once a week or so).
thiago_fm 8y ago
Well, people shouldn't be buying antibiotics without a doctors note. Doctors shouldn't be prescribing antibiotics unless there is a big real need. Problem solved. In Germany they do this. No doctor ever prescribes antibiotics. I've used to hate this fact, as most of adults "I NEED TO WORK!!!!11". Here in Germany they are a bit more open to people being sick and staying at home, but some companies are pushing the boundaries, such as, Amazon have some bullying system for people who call in sick, etc. But overall, 500% better than the US? For instance, at the moment now I'm sick and I've been sick for like almost a month and they don't give me Antibiotics. Back in Brazil, where I've lived, they would just give me it and I would be "healthy" again in 2 days or less. It is a complex problem. To be honest, most of the usage is probably because people don't want to be sick for too many days, as this is terrible in this sick career ladder where if you don't take antibiotics and is sick for a few weeks, and your peers take it and also put some ritalin on top, you have no chance to compete. Maybe governments & institutions should control MUCH MORE drugs which are clearly being abused just for the sake of making people rat racing. This creates a very unfair field for whoever do the right thing, which is staying at home and letting the body do what it should. But this can only be changed if people find it important, for politicians that live off your taxes, they would rather help you to work to death.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >In Germany they do this. No doctor ever prescribes antibiotics. I've used to hate this fact, as most of adults "I NEED TO WORK!!!!11". Well, companies making you work (or guilting you to work) if while you are sick with a doctors notice, should be fined heavily too. Problem solved.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
  >Problem solved. Absolutely not: >In Germany, 1,734 tons of antimicrobial agents were used for animals in 2011 compared with 800 tons for humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_use_in_livestock#European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_use_in_livestock#Eu...
  - hycaria 8y ago
AFascistWorld 8y ago
My relatives would rush to buy the "anti-inflammatory" medicines - Cephalosporins plus some traditional Chinese medicines - whenever they have sign of a cold, which seemed to occur quite often for them. And it's a popular belief.

46 points by prostoalex 8y ago

https://outline.com/KKTLmL https://outline.com/KKTLmL

Here is another factor to consider that I think many are overlooking: our steadily increasing RF-exposure may be altering the growth rate and antibiotic susceptibility of bacteria and other microorganisms. I don't think many are considering this possibility, and I don't like what I find. It seems RF-radiation, even at non-thermal exposure levels, is able to both alter the growth rate and antibiotic interaction of microorganisms. "Extremely High Frequency Electromagnetic Radiation Enforces Bacterial Effects of Inhibitors and Antibiotics": https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51408122_Extremely_High_Frequency_Electromagnetic_Radiation_Enforces_Bacterial_Effects_of_Inhibitors_and_Antibiotics https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51408122_Extremely_... "Evaluation of the Effect of Radiofrequency Radiation Emitted From Wi-Fi Router and Mobile Phone Simulator on the Antibacterial Susceptibility of Pathogenic Bacteria Listeria monocytogenes and Escherichia coli": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5298474/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5298474/ "Effect of radio-frequency electromagnetic radiation on physiological features of Saccharomyces cerevisiae strain UCM Y-517": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15456218 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15456218 "Preliminary results on the non-thermal effects of 200-350 GHz radiation on the growth rate of S. cerevisiae cells in microcolonies": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12452574 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12452574

coldtea 8y ago
You're not supposed to mention RF exposure. You're obviously a tin-foil loony, even if you cite legitimate research papers. All the industry-sponsored studies say its totally harmless... /s
Nasrudith 8y ago
That study which mentions routers and wifi seems questionably controlled - increased exposure time decreasing inhibition radius? I would expect that from just time passing would do that - it only mentions the radius shrinking not shrinking at a faster rate. To be frank that sounds like a high school level procedure error. Plus even if taken at face value they admit they only notice the effects on certain strains at certain phases.
- adsfqwop 8y ago
  Even if it is on certain strains, it means we need to consider what it means on a larger scale. What other strains? What other frequencies? By not considering the possible implications of this interaction, IF TRUE, you may be overlooking something important which needs further study. Or I hope you are not suggesting we just cross our fingers, forget about it, and hope these were all just "high school level errors"?
gingabriska 8y ago
This space will have more research in coming days specially after the coming of Pakshi Rajan.

prittgluestick 8y ago

Would widespread use of synthetic meat solve the antibiotics issue (as well as help with global warming)? I have only researched synthetic meat a little bit and am wondering if anyone has more concrete information and opinions.

superpermutat0r 8y ago

Resistant strains rarely come from antibiotics use on humans. Antibiotics abuse in agriculture is what brings rise to superbugs. No better way to develop them than billions of Petri dishes born every year and badly administered end of the line antibiotics.

cameronbrown 8y ago
We badly need an alternative to animal agriculture. It takes up huge swathes of space, contributes more to global warming than anything else, and now superbugs? This is terrifying and has far far worse implications than climate change. Imagine if we regress back to time where medical science is useless? - Where even having a child becomes a killer because the antibiotics don't work anymore. I know most people aren't ready to give up meat, but we need to cut production massively and soon. Maybe cloned meat is the answer.
- strainer 8y ago
  Besides the biological safety issues in mass producing animal flesh detached from an evolved and plenty mysterious natural immune system... Meat gets flavor from animals diet and digestion and overall systematic health. The magic cloned meat fairy should and may well never amount to more than a strange and precarious confusion, about our potential and desirable relationship to food and its environment in crisis.
  - cameronbrown 8y ago
    I'm not saying cloned meat is the answer, just that it could be an answer. Is there any reason not to try?
- coldtea 8y ago
  > We badly need an alternative to animal agriculture. We could start by eating way less meat, the amount that our ancestors ate more or less, and that doctors advice (once a week or so).

thiago_fm 8y ago

Well, people shouldn't be buying antibiotics without a doctors note. Doctors shouldn't be prescribing antibiotics unless there is a big real need. Problem solved. In Germany they do this. No doctor ever prescribes antibiotics. I've used to hate this fact, as most of adults "I NEED TO WORK!!!!11". Here in Germany they are a bit more open to people being sick and staying at home, but some companies are pushing the boundaries, such as, Amazon have some bullying system for people who call in sick, etc. But overall, 500% better than the US? For instance, at the moment now I'm sick and I've been sick for like almost a month and they don't give me Antibiotics. Back in Brazil, where I've lived, they would just give me it and I would be "healthy" again in 2 days or less. It is a complex problem. To be honest, most of the usage is probably because people don't want to be sick for too many days, as this is terrible in this sick career ladder where if you don't take antibiotics and is sick for a few weeks, and your peers take it and also put some ritalin on top, you have no chance to compete. Maybe governments & institutions should control MUCH MORE drugs which are clearly being abused just for the sake of making people rat racing. This creates a very unfair field for whoever do the right thing, which is staying at home and letting the body do what it should. But this can only be changed if people find it important, for politicians that live off your taxes, they would rather help you to work to death.

coldtea 8y ago
>In Germany they do this. No doctor ever prescribes antibiotics. I've used to hate this fact, as most of adults "I NEED TO WORK!!!!11". Well, companies making you work (or guilting you to work) if while you are sick with a doctors notice, should be fined heavily too. Problem solved.
rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
>Problem solved. Absolutely not: >In Germany, 1,734 tons of antimicrobial agents were used for animals in 2011 compared with 800 tons for humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_use_in_livestock#European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_use_in_livestock#Eu...
- hycaria 8y ago

AFascistWorld 8y ago

My relatives would rush to buy the "anti-inflammatory" medicines - Cephalosporins plus some traditional Chinese medicines - whenever they have sign of a cold, which seemed to occur quite often for them. And it's a popular belief.