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You're being disingenuous! Paul Joseph Watson believes: - 9/11 was an inside job - The illuminati is controlling your mind with chemitrails - Soy beans are m

You're being disingenuous! Paul Joseph Watson believes: - 9/11 was an inside job - The illuminati is controlling your mind with chemitrails - Soy beans are making men docile and feminine. Sounds pretty fringe to me. Don't care how many views he has. He also incites hate against muslims, which I'd say, makes him pretty dangerous. My opinion of Facebook's actions is a separate matter. But the narrative you're pushing to justify your argument - it's complete BS.

sneakernets 7y ago
One of his YouTube contemporaries pointed out that his "supplements" he sold contained nothing but soy derivatives, and instead of acknowledging it, decided to dress in drag and scream at a camera for several minutes. I wish I were making that up.
- lghh 7y ago
  Hbomberguy did the video about it in case anyone is wondering.
mindslight 7y ago
> - 9/11 was an inside job And yet the opposing simplistic narrative of "Terrorists hate our freedom" has caused orders of magnitude more harm. Hundreds of thousands of lives lost! But since that is the power-structure-approved message, it was/is heartily repeated (along side yellow cake, aluminum tubes, etc). If someone can't grasp the bigger ideas of multiple independent actors each with their own divergent motivations, suicide attackers acting out of desperation for long term grievances, etc, I'd rather them end up at "inside job" instead of the officially sanctioned propaganda that ended up mobilizing so much death.
- ben_w 7y ago
  How many deaths would have happened if everyone in group “inside job” switched opinions with everyone in group “they hate our freedoms”? It’s not often good for mortality rates if the people turn against their government, even when they are right to do so.
  - mindslight 7y ago
    I agree that violent revolution would cause many deaths. But these viewpoints are not going to atomically swap places, but rather gradually diminish support. Conspiracy theories are direct responses to the official narrative being crafted as a gradient of opinion-facts that frame a political conclusion as if it's irrefutable. When rationality is abused to marginalize a viewpoint, that viewpoint shirks rationality. Suppressing counter-sanctioned viewpoints ultimately just causes that divergence to continue growing, setting it up to pop even more drastically. If the goal is to prevent fire, the best approach is to not have fuel sitting around. If you truly want to prevent violent collapse, then work to oppose the corrupt controlling agenda that's being pushed "rationally", rather than low-effort shouting down of wacky opposition. PS note that's all from a solely USian internal perspective. It's not really any consolation to eg the dead Iraqis that the US avoided a domestic revolution by killing them instead.
ravenstine 7y ago
That's not fair of you to say I am being disingenuous. Please think before jumping to conclusions. I really don't want to get into nitty gritty debate over people like PJW, but most of what you bring up plays into my point. What's your threshold for considering an idea to be dangerous? It could be argued that there are ideas that can cause harmful effects on society, but people also have a right to be stupid. I don't see how believing in the illuminati, chemtrails, soy causing feminization, or that 9/11 was an inside Job are dangerous in the same objective sense that promoting racial violence is. If you have a problem with people believing bogus things, then think about considering issues around education to be a priority, as people who grow up in societies that don't value critical thinking, science, skepticism, etc., are probably prone to believing dumb things. People won't stop talking about chemtrails because platforms consider it dangerous, and restricting speech around "fringe" topics only validates people's beliefs that the authorities are hiding the truth. I don't know enough about what PJW has said about Muslims. Can you elaborate?
- waer34tawer 7y ago
  > That's not fair of you to say I am being disingenuous. It is. You have heard of PJW. Enough to defend him here. So presumably you're aware of his views, which is what he's known for. > I really don't want to get into nitty gritty debate over people like PJW But that's what you've done. > I don't see how believing in the illuminati, chemtrails, soy causing feminization, or that 9/11 was an inside Job are dangerous in the same objective sense that promoting racial violence is. He stops short of promoting outright violence precisely because he knows that will get him kicked off of places. What he has done is portray muslims as boogeymen, saying that they are all rapists, that they turn cities into ghettos, and that the west needs "islam control." If you don't think that's dangerous, look into the anti-semitic conspiracy theories that spread throughout europe before the holocaust. Very similar language.
  - ravenstine 7y ago
    > It is. You have heard of PJW. Enough to defend him here. So presumably you're aware of his views, which is what he's known for. I can't possibly watch all of his videos, and I'm not even subscribed to him. Should only people who are intimately familiar with every detail of Paul Joseph Watson speak here in this thread? Pardon me. I've mostly seen/heard him in passively because sometimes his videos end up autoplaying when I've got YouTube playing in the background(I'm sure you won't read into that), and I never thought what he said to be dangerous, bullshit it may be. He says some ridiculous things, but lots of people say ridiculous things. Forgive me for not frothing at the mouth. Respectfully, you're being a jerk. That's your prerogative, but that tends to sour otherwise civilized discussion. All I did was ask a question, and you're accusing me of bad intent. > But that's what you've done. Yeah, I know. > He stops short of promoting outright violence precisely because he knows that will get him kicked off of places. What he has done is portray muslims as boogeymen, saying that they are all rapists, that they turn cities into ghettos, and that the west needs "islam control." If you don't think that's dangerous, look into the anti-semitic conspiracy theories that spread throughout europe before the holocaust. Very similar language. You probably should have lead with this in the first place, rather than things he might have said about relatively benign conspiracy theories like chemtrails. I still don't know all the details and the context involved, but I'd be inclined to agree with you based on what you wrote there.
donatj 7y ago
While the first two points are obviously blatantly false, soy does contain high levels of phytoestrogen which there are some studies indicating it may cause your body to perceive increased estrogen levels. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074428/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074428/
- faissaloo 7y ago
  Sure but the body can't actually use phytoestrogen the same way so it's harmless. If you want to now what's making men docile and feminine look towards pollution of the air and water supplies.
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    > If you want to know what's making men docile and feminine look towards pollution of the air and water supplies. But not the food supplies? Just air and water?
    - faissaloo 7y ago
      No food too for sure, air and water is just what came to mind since it's much more ubiquitous.
samdoidge 7y ago
> The illuminati is controlling your mind with chemitrails Do you have any source at all for this? He seemed to be beyond 'chemtrails' from what I had seen of him, and indeed he has a video stating: > Another viral YouTube video purporting to show a pilot forgetting to turn off chemtrails as a plane comes in to land is another example of how baseless conspiracy theories distract from genuine issues and cover-ups.
- justinmchase 7y ago
  What are you saying that this unilateral and overly simplistic declaration of his views used to advocate for his censorship may also be inaccurate? Who could have ever predicted that was a possibility?? Oh well too late, I guess we should let that be a lesson to us all not to even try to buck mainstream narratives.
astura 7y ago
Yeah and for Alex Jones: The government has ‘weather weapons’ Chemicals in the water are turning frogs gay Robert Mueller is a demon, and also a pedophile The Sandy Hook shooting was staged Hillary Clinton is running a child sex ring out of a pizza parlor Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/alex-jones-5-most-disturbing-ridiculous-conspiracy-theories.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/alex-jones-5-most-disturbing...
- BickNowstrom 7y ago
  The government has weather weapons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Modification_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Modification_Con... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_warfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_warfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye Chemicals in the water are turning the frogs gay. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-environment-potomac/sex-changing-chemicals-found-in-potomac-river-idUSN1738648320070118 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-environment-potomac/sex-c... For Mueller, Sandy Hook, and Pizzagate, Alex Jones speculated and reported on these existing conspiracy theories. He did not invent them. He apologized for Pizzagate and Sandy Hook, and blames his rants on psychosis.
  - JakeTheAndroid 7y ago
    Good ol' insanity defense. Classic. Guess he doesn't invent anything that guy, besides a product line to make him money.
    - BickNowstrom 7y ago
      You think Alex Jones is a 100% sane? And no need to guess, all those conspiracy theories discussed on his show had already been talked about by others. The product line is a strawman.
  - astura 7y ago
    The topic at hand is how fringe his beliefs are, not how accurate or original.
naasking 7y ago
> He also incites hate against muslims, which I'd say, makes him pretty dangerous. I'm sure you could easily say that, but whether you can justify that is the real question. Because if we're just going to censor people based on groundless rhetoric simply because we don't like what they're saying or thinking, well there are quite a few dystopian ends that follow that line of thought.
lsh123 7y ago
Watson was my morning laugh story on FB for years, I’ll miss him.
BickNowstrom 7y ago
One poll results that over half (54%) of all Americans believe the government is concealing information it has on 9/11. Eminem co-wrote a song about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_consp... https://blogs.chapman.edu/wilkinson/2016/10/11/what-arent-they-telling-us/ https://blogs.chapman.edu/wilkinson/2016/10/11/what-arent-th... Legit studies confirm that soy products adversatively alter testosterone in men. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098 http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/16/4/829?ijkey=4c97212772ba82aaaf19f67890d4e7b88d76ccfa&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/16/4/829?ijkey=4c972127... The meta-study from 2010 that is used to debunk the soyboy conspiracy also confirms that soy consumption lowers testosterone (just that it does not manifest the adverse effects associated with lowered testosterone) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224 PJW promoted and speculated on the chemtrail conspiracy (which is about weather modification, not mind control). The mind control part was later conflated and it makes the theory way less credible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy. The chemtrail conspiracy has its roots in this document: https://web.archive.org/web/20090716000939/http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/v3c15/v3c15-1.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20090716000939/http://www.fas.or... which is about weather warfare, which the US already engaged in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_warfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_warfare Paul Watson does not incite hatred or violence against Muslims (can't source a negative, so you please source your affirmative). He even criticized Trump for retweeting anti-Muslim rhetoric https://www.businessinsider.com/infowars-paul-joseph-watson-trump-britain-first-far-right-2017-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/infowars-paul-joseph-watson-.... He is very critical of radical Islam, but that is hardly a fringe position in the West.
colordrops 7y ago
One of those there is not like the other. Just because we hear repeatedly that the 9/11 story is fully understood doesn't make it true. There is absolutely nothing far fetched about the idea of a conspiracy around 9/11, whether the the evidence is there or not. The motives are there and there is plenty of evidence of lying and false flags throughout history, including recently in the US. Please read on Operation Northwoods and the Gulf of Tonkin incident. This sort of thing involves human politics and is simply not in the same class as reptilian overlords.
- 3131s 7y ago
  I don't know what "inside job" means to everyone here, but it's pretty clear that elements of the Bush administration had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_advance-k...

sneakernets 7y ago

One of his YouTube contemporaries pointed out that his "supplements" he sold contained nothing but soy derivatives, and instead of acknowledging it, decided to dress in drag and scream at a camera for several minutes. I wish I were making that up.

lghh 7y ago
Hbomberguy did the video about it in case anyone is wondering.

mindslight 7y ago

> - 9/11 was an inside job And yet the opposing simplistic narrative of "Terrorists hate our freedom" has caused orders of magnitude more harm. Hundreds of thousands of lives lost! But since that is the power-structure-approved message, it was/is heartily repeated (along side yellow cake, aluminum tubes, etc). If someone can't grasp the bigger ideas of multiple independent actors each with their own divergent motivations, suicide attackers acting out of desperation for long term grievances, etc, I'd rather them end up at "inside job" instead of the officially sanctioned propaganda that ended up mobilizing so much death.

ben_w 7y ago
How many deaths would have happened if everyone in group “inside job” switched opinions with everyone in group “they hate our freedoms”? It’s not often good for mortality rates if the people turn against their government, even when they are right to do so.
- mindslight 7y ago
  I agree that violent revolution would cause many deaths. But these viewpoints are not going to atomically swap places, but rather gradually diminish support. Conspiracy theories are direct responses to the official narrative being crafted as a gradient of opinion-facts that frame a political conclusion as if it's irrefutable. When rationality is abused to marginalize a viewpoint, that viewpoint shirks rationality. Suppressing counter-sanctioned viewpoints ultimately just causes that divergence to continue growing, setting it up to pop even more drastically. If the goal is to prevent fire, the best approach is to not have fuel sitting around. If you truly want to prevent violent collapse, then work to oppose the corrupt controlling agenda that's being pushed "rationally", rather than low-effort shouting down of wacky opposition. PS note that's all from a solely USian internal perspective. It's not really any consolation to eg the dead Iraqis that the US avoided a domestic revolution by killing them instead.

ravenstine 7y ago

That's not fair of you to say I am being disingenuous. Please think before jumping to conclusions. I really don't want to get into nitty gritty debate over people like PJW, but most of what you bring up plays into my point. What's your threshold for considering an idea to be dangerous? It could be argued that there are ideas that can cause harmful effects on society, but people also have a right to be stupid. I don't see how believing in the illuminati, chemtrails, soy causing feminization, or that 9/11 was an inside Job are dangerous in the same objective sense that promoting racial violence is. If you have a problem with people believing bogus things, then think about considering issues around education to be a priority, as people who grow up in societies that don't value critical thinking, science, skepticism, etc., are probably prone to believing dumb things. People won't stop talking about chemtrails because platforms consider it dangerous, and restricting speech around "fringe" topics only validates people's beliefs that the authorities are hiding the truth. I don't know enough about what PJW has said about Muslims. Can you elaborate?

waer34tawer 7y ago
> That's not fair of you to say I am being disingenuous. It is. You have heard of PJW. Enough to defend him here. So presumably you're aware of his views, which is what he's known for. > I really don't want to get into nitty gritty debate over people like PJW But that's what you've done. > I don't see how believing in the illuminati, chemtrails, soy causing feminization, or that 9/11 was an inside Job are dangerous in the same objective sense that promoting racial violence is. He stops short of promoting outright violence precisely because he knows that will get him kicked off of places. What he has done is portray muslims as boogeymen, saying that they are all rapists, that they turn cities into ghettos, and that the west needs "islam control." If you don't think that's dangerous, look into the anti-semitic conspiracy theories that spread throughout europe before the holocaust. Very similar language.
- ravenstine 7y ago
  > It is. You have heard of PJW. Enough to defend him here. So presumably you're aware of his views, which is what he's known for. I can't possibly watch all of his videos, and I'm not even subscribed to him. Should only people who are intimately familiar with every detail of Paul Joseph Watson speak here in this thread? Pardon me. I've mostly seen/heard him in passively because sometimes his videos end up autoplaying when I've got YouTube playing in the background(I'm sure you won't read into that), and I never thought what he said to be dangerous, bullshit it may be. He says some ridiculous things, but lots of people say ridiculous things. Forgive me for not frothing at the mouth. Respectfully, you're being a jerk. That's your prerogative, but that tends to sour otherwise civilized discussion. All I did was ask a question, and you're accusing me of bad intent. > But that's what you've done. Yeah, I know. > He stops short of promoting outright violence precisely because he knows that will get him kicked off of places. What he has done is portray muslims as boogeymen, saying that they are all rapists, that they turn cities into ghettos, and that the west needs "islam control." If you don't think that's dangerous, look into the anti-semitic conspiracy theories that spread throughout europe before the holocaust. Very similar language. You probably should have lead with this in the first place, rather than things he might have said about relatively benign conspiracy theories like chemtrails. I still don't know all the details and the context involved, but I'd be inclined to agree with you based on what you wrote there.

donatj 7y ago

While the first two points are obviously blatantly false, soy does contain high levels of phytoestrogen which there are some studies indicating it may cause your body to perceive increased estrogen levels. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074428/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074428/

faissaloo 7y ago
Sure but the body can't actually use phytoestrogen the same way so it's harmless. If you want to now what's making men docile and feminine look towards pollution of the air and water supplies.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  > If you want to know what's making men docile and feminine look towards pollution of the air and water supplies. But not the food supplies? Just air and water?
  - faissaloo 7y ago
    No food too for sure, air and water is just what came to mind since it's much more ubiquitous.

samdoidge 7y ago

> The illuminati is controlling your mind with chemitrails Do you have any source at all for this? He seemed to be beyond 'chemtrails' from what I had seen of him, and indeed he has a video stating: > Another viral YouTube video purporting to show a pilot forgetting to turn off chemtrails as a plane comes in to land is another example of how baseless conspiracy theories distract from genuine issues and cover-ups.

justinmchase 7y ago
What are you saying that this unilateral and overly simplistic declaration of his views used to advocate for his censorship may also be inaccurate? Who could have ever predicted that was a possibility?? Oh well too late, I guess we should let that be a lesson to us all not to even try to buck mainstream narratives.

astura 7y ago

Yeah and for Alex Jones: The government has ‘weather weapons’ Chemicals in the water are turning frogs gay Robert Mueller is a demon, and also a pedophile The Sandy Hook shooting was staged Hillary Clinton is running a child sex ring out of a pizza parlor Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/alex-jones-5-most-disturbing-ridiculous-conspiracy-theories.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/alex-jones-5-most-disturbing...

BickNowstrom 7y ago
The government has weather weapons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Modification_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Modification_Con... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_warfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_warfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye Chemicals in the water are turning the frogs gay. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-environment-potomac/sex-changing-chemicals-found-in-potomac-river-idUSN1738648320070118 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-environment-potomac/sex-c... For Mueller, Sandy Hook, and Pizzagate, Alex Jones speculated and reported on these existing conspiracy theories. He did not invent them. He apologized for Pizzagate and Sandy Hook, and blames his rants on psychosis.
- JakeTheAndroid 7y ago
  Good ol' insanity defense. Classic. Guess he doesn't invent anything that guy, besides a product line to make him money.
  - BickNowstrom 7y ago
    You think Alex Jones is a 100% sane? And no need to guess, all those conspiracy theories discussed on his show had already been talked about by others. The product line is a strawman.
- astura 7y ago
  The topic at hand is how fringe his beliefs are, not how accurate or original.

naasking 7y ago

> He also incites hate against muslims, which I'd say, makes him pretty dangerous. I'm sure you could easily say that, but whether you can justify that is the real question. Because if we're just going to censor people based on groundless rhetoric simply because we don't like what they're saying or thinking, well there are quite a few dystopian ends that follow that line of thought.

lsh123 7y ago

Watson was my morning laugh story on FB for years, I’ll miss him.

BickNowstrom 7y ago

One poll results that over half (54%) of all Americans believe the government is concealing information it has on 9/11. Eminem co-wrote a song about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_consp... https://blogs.chapman.edu/wilkinson/2016/10/11/what-arent-they-telling-us/ https://blogs.chapman.edu/wilkinson/2016/10/11/what-arent-th... Legit studies confirm that soy products adversatively alter testosterone in men. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098 http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/16/4/829?ijkey=4c97212772ba82aaaf19f67890d4e7b88d76ccfa&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/16/4/829?ijkey=4c972127... The meta-study from 2010 that is used to debunk the soyboy conspiracy also confirms that soy consumption lowers testosterone (just that it does not manifest the adverse effects associated with lowered testosterone) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224 PJW promoted and speculated on the chemtrail conspiracy (which is about weather modification, not mind control). The mind control part was later conflated and it makes the theory way less credible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy. The chemtrail conspiracy has its roots in this document: https://web.archive.org/web/20090716000939/http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/v3c15/v3c15-1.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20090716000939/http://www.fas.or... which is about weather warfare, which the US already engaged in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_warfare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_warfare Paul Watson does not incite hatred or violence against Muslims (can't source a negative, so you please source your affirmative). He even criticized Trump for retweeting anti-Muslim rhetoric https://www.businessinsider.com/infowars-paul-joseph-watson-trump-britain-first-far-right-2017-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/infowars-paul-joseph-watson-.... He is very critical of radical Islam, but that is hardly a fringe position in the West.

colordrops 7y ago

One of those there is not like the other. Just because we hear repeatedly that the 9/11 story is fully understood doesn't make it true. There is absolutely nothing far fetched about the idea of a conspiracy around 9/11, whether the the evidence is there or not. The motives are there and there is plenty of evidence of lying and false flags throughout history, including recently in the US. Please read on Operation Northwoods and the Gulf of Tonkin incident. This sort of thing involves human politics and is simply not in the same class as reptilian overlords.

3131s 7y ago
I don't know what "inside job" means to everyone here, but it's pretty clear that elements of the Bush administration had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_advance-k...