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Speaking personally, this is pretty straightforward. Why would I buy a Chevy Bolt for the same price as a Model 3, even if I have to buy it "off menu"? (And de

Speaking personally, this is pretty straightforward. Why would I buy a Chevy Bolt for the same price as a Model 3, even if I have to buy it "off menu"? (And deliveries have started, BTW: https://electrek.co/2019/04/15/tesla-delivers-35000-model-3/ https://electrek.co/2019/04/15/tesla-delivers-35000-model-3/) Or slightly more for the more available Standard Plus Model 3? The Bolt is wonderful, but it's limited to 50kW charging and even more important it has no access to a consistent, strategically placed network of well-maintained chargers spanning the continent. Basically, the Bolt is still a city commuter which cannot feasibly take road trips of any significant length (outside of charging corridors in the Northeast and West coast), not too different from a Leaf, functionally. At least with the Volt, you could still take road trips the same as any other car. (And all of this ignores the panoramic glass roof, the autopilot features, the superior cosmetics, the improved per-mile efficiency, etc, etc.) And yes, GM is in the same situation as Tesla, having the federal EV credit phased out. And that's a major shame. GM, with the Volt in particular, was a major pioneer in modern electric cars, along with Tesla. And now both are being almost punished for their foresight and initiative. Shows how very little the Congress/Administration/federal government currently values emissions reductions or even rational industrial policy... China very likely may end up owning the EV market.

newsoul2019 8y ago
>> no access to a consistent, strategically placed network of well-maintained chargers spanning the continent. Isn't that called "Chargepoint"?
- Robotbeat 8y ago
  Not in my experience, no. I own two electric cars (a gen 1 Leaf with DC fast charge and a gen 1 Volt).
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  The Chargepoint network is woefully inadequate (both locations and charge speed, anything capable of less than 120kw-150kw might as well be a 120V outlet) compared to Tesla's Supercharger network. Electrify America's network is still in its infancy (and you can't charge a Tesla on it yet until CCS adapters are available). I travel cross country in the US frequently on the Supercharger network (Model S), without any range anxiety or fear of getting to an inoperable station late at night with little battery range left. Many hotels also have destination chargers, so I can charge overnight at the hotel while I sleep and leave with a full charge. I could not do this with any other EV.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 8y ago
    > anything capable of less than 120kw-150kw Shouldn't that be enough to charge a mostly empty battery to mostly full over a 30 minute lunch break?
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Indeed it is, but most of the ChargePoint network does not support such charge rates.
- m463 8y ago
  Here's my experience with various charging networks: - EVGO is excellent. They have L3 (chademo/sae) chargers in lots of locations, and they work. I believe they own the chargers. The chargers seem to be 400v/100a = 40kw. - Chargepoint is very good. They have reliable chargers, just not many L3 chargers. Most of their chargers are L2 (~6kw). I don't think they own chargers, or they own only some of them. But they are reliable and/or have good service. - Blink has always disappointed me - L3 is unreliable and always broken. Some L2 chargers work. plugshare is your friend.
  - joshlittle 8y ago
    Add electrify America too. Pricey, but still cheaper than gas. Competition is good though!
Theodores 8y ago
From how you put it I think the analogy that resonates for me is from the world of mp3 players. Remember how Apple brought out the iPod with iTunes? You knew it was expensive and that there were cheaper and 'just as good' mp3 players out there but they all missed the mark. Even when Apple brought out the screenless (and useless) Shuffle thing nobody was buying Kodak's MC3 mp3 player with built in camera and speaker, even if it was a pretty good product. Apple weren't out of the woods when the iPod came out, they weren't really making money. Kodak's revenue dwarfed that of Apple. Same with Sony, better known for audio products at the time. I think your analysis of China taking control of the EV market is correct. China has a better culture for innovation and an extremely competitive domestic market. Whatever survives that will be something that legacy U.S. auto makers will not be able to compete against. Cheaper wages has nothing to do with it, lower environmental standards will have nothing to do with it, neither will patents. In China they have robotised factories making robots, these robots will be making our cars.

newsoul2019 8y ago

>> no access to a consistent, strategically placed network of well-maintained chargers spanning the continent. Isn't that called "Chargepoint"?

Robotbeat 8y ago
Not in my experience, no. I own two electric cars (a gen 1 Leaf with DC fast charge and a gen 1 Volt).
toomuchtodo 8y ago
The Chargepoint network is woefully inadequate (both locations and charge speed, anything capable of less than 120kw-150kw might as well be a 120V outlet) compared to Tesla's Supercharger network. Electrify America's network is still in its infancy (and you can't charge a Tesla on it yet until CCS adapters are available). I travel cross country in the US frequently on the Supercharger network (Model S), without any range anxiety or fear of getting to an inoperable station late at night with little battery range left. Many hotels also have destination chargers, so I can charge overnight at the hotel while I sleep and leave with a full charge. I could not do this with any other EV.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 8y ago
  > anything capable of less than 120kw-150kw Shouldn't that be enough to charge a mostly empty battery to mostly full over a 30 minute lunch break?
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Indeed it is, but most of the ChargePoint network does not support such charge rates.
m463 8y ago
Here's my experience with various charging networks: - EVGO is excellent. They have L3 (chademo/sae) chargers in lots of locations, and they work. I believe they own the chargers. The chargers seem to be 400v/100a = 40kw. - Chargepoint is very good. They have reliable chargers, just not many L3 chargers. Most of their chargers are L2 (~6kw). I don't think they own chargers, or they own only some of them. But they are reliable and/or have good service. - Blink has always disappointed me - L3 is unreliable and always broken. Some L2 chargers work. plugshare is your friend.
- joshlittle 8y ago
  Add electrify America too. Pricey, but still cheaper than gas. Competition is good though!

Theodores 8y ago

From how you put it I think the analogy that resonates for me is from the world of mp3 players. Remember how Apple brought out the iPod with iTunes? You knew it was expensive and that there were cheaper and 'just as good' mp3 players out there but they all missed the mark. Even when Apple brought out the screenless (and useless) Shuffle thing nobody was buying Kodak's MC3 mp3 player with built in camera and speaker, even if it was a pretty good product. Apple weren't out of the woods when the iPod came out, they weren't really making money. Kodak's revenue dwarfed that of Apple. Same with Sony, better known for audio products at the time. I think your analysis of China taking control of the EV market is correct. China has a better culture for innovation and an extremely competitive domestic market. Whatever survives that will be something that legacy U.S. auto makers will not be able to compete against. Cheaper wages has nothing to do with it, lower environmental standards will have nothing to do with it, neither will patents. In China they have robotised factories making robots, these robots will be making our cars.