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And by 'good jobs' they mean 'anything near a decent wage'... for dropouts. This is one of the most patronizing, anti-competitive articles I've seen in a long t
by suff 7y ago
And by 'good jobs' they mean 'anything near a decent wage'... for dropouts. This is one of the most patronizing, anti-competitive articles I've seen in a long time. If you want evidence of coastal elitism, read this article as exhibit A.
As a dropout who learns faster on youtube than in a classroom, and making more than my state senator's entire family, let me give everyone reading this advice: Don't be scared away by elites protecting their jobs in large cities. Come in at 70% of the price, excellent work ethic, and give them a run for their money. Most Americans live in a country that values cost efficiency over credentials. We hold meritocracy above bureaucracy, and it should be celebrated not discouraged.
- humbleMouse 7y agoAgreed. Today's gatekeepers are trying harder than ever to gaurd the gates, but the tide is turning and the gatekeepers are loosing.
- maceurt 7y agoEspecially when the barrier to entry for a good college is getting lower and lower, and community colleges are getting better and better. The only thing holding up a lot of colleges now, is their low acceptance rate and their past prestige.
- suff 7y agoAnd their endowments... and tax payer subsidized student debt programs... and rich people paying $10m to skip the line... not sure I would characterize that as clinging to life support. I would say though, that it's a giant waste of money and an efficient market gives ZFs about how much money you wasted.
- maceurt 7y agoIt will be an exponential decline once people start realizing that they are not as good as their prestige holds them to be. Once that happens their tax subsidies, student applications, bribes from wealthy families, etc will all go with it. What is the core product that an Ivy League level school is offering that makes people come there? Prestige, and I don't care what business your in, you will decline immensely once you lose what made you the best. ExpertsExchange and Netscape Navigator are just two examples (albeit wildly different market) of rapid decline when their bread and butter was not as good relative to their competition. I promise you, unless these prestigious schools are able to vastly change their business model, they are going to decline heavily.
- asdff 7y agoColleges aren't good because of prestige or acceptance rates, they are good because they have good faculty. Everything else is a result of having sought after faculty.
- xnorornx 7y ago> Come in at 70% of the price,... No, absolutely not.
- suff 7y agoFind your sweet spot, in your industry, for your specific experience. The point is: be bold and competitive, not afraid and protectionist.
- xnorornx 7y agoI'm struggling to put this more constructively, but I really can't find the words for it: this is incredibly corny advice for the privileged from the privileged.
- suff 7y agoI think what I hear you saying is not to take a 30% cut on wages that have stagnated. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying you should take a swing at that $300k/yr 'elite' job, not the leftovers patronizingly displayed in the NY Times article. If you can do that job for less than $300k because you don't have $250k in student debt, that's what the free market calls a competitive advantage. You should be empowered to use your advantage, not discouraged like this article attempts to do. Also, my Dad grew up on a shit farm, forced to work for free until he escaped as a teenager. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. Work hard, get smart, get rich, in that order.
- fzeroracer 7y agoAllowing yourself to be exploited is a great way to ensure that careers face a race to the bottom with employers offering fewer benefits, less pay etc all because people are desperate to find a job. This isn't a 'meritocracy'. This is exploitative behavior disguised as being beneficial mixed in with a bit of survivorship bias. I've had friends of mine take software jobs paying well the average (as in, 50k and below in an expensive city) thinking that by just working extra hard the company will reward those efforts.
- suff 7y agoAllowing yourself to take advantage of the fact that you don't have eye-wateringly high, ivy league levels of student debt, and therefore can offer better cost efficiency is a BIG advantage. If you ALSO have massive debt and require massive pay, without a degree, well, yeah, you're screwed both ways. Same solution though: work extra hard.
- fzeroracer 7y agoThese companies you're offering 'better cost efficiency to' are already likely earning 100x+ off of your average software engineer. There is absolutely zero benefit to coming to negotiations devaluing your own experience and skills, because that means companies will lowball you even further. You're not the arbiter of cost efficiency. The company looking to hire you is. When you presume you're worth less than what you actually are, you're opening yourself up to abuse. What you're describing is in essence the various entertainment industries which take advantage of fresh grads, forcing them into long overtime and for less pay.
- suff 7y ago_Assuming_ there are no other applicants for the job, you are correct. However, as Jeff Atwood would say, "In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
- sparkpy724 7y agoNot to nitpick but most Ivy League schools have robust financial aid(families making less than 100K have no loans etc.) and the average debt load is <$40,000 which is very manageable with an Ivy League degree.
- nimbius 7y agoHey now, dont knock it till you try it. the article talks about college drop-outs, not highschool flunkies, and i think theres a real point to be made here. College isnt for everyone, but parents push super hard to get their kids there and I dont know why. I went to a 2 year trade school for diesel engine repair. It was affordable and I could pay my way through with a job at a local pizza chain. Try finding a 4 year college you can afford with that pay-grade. living in a big city isnt for everyone. I did a stint in Brooklyn once, learning to service buses and garbage trucks. The pay is good but the pace is sometimes insane because thats the pace of the city you live in. Theres a lot of pressure to deliver it right the first time, and i dont regret learning that work ethic, but I didnt find home in that city. What i can say for the trade i have is that its rewarding and sometimes pays close to cut-rate lawyer money. I dont worry about bills and ive got plenty of cash to hit the pub once a week to see the game. The world needs electricians, plumbers, and even mechanics to keep running. Check out the hourly base pay of most of these trades and try to imagine pulling a little overtime, which is usually part of the trade in salary jobs as well im told. HVAC is also a great trade with endless advancement and opportunity.
- suff 7y agoI totally get it. My Dad is a very blue collar guy. I spent a summer working in a diesel plant.
- GenArt 7y agoIf you can't afford college but you have enough of a support system to get good grades and extracurriculars, there's a good chance you'll get into a good university with a generous financial aid program. If you get into a top university and your parents make combined <$100,000/yr, it's likely you won't have to pay any tuition at all.
- matchbok 7y agoElites? Protecting jobs? There is no secret cabal here doing "protection". Not sure where you get this stuff from.
- suff 7y agoWell... what schools does the NY Times mostly hire from? Simple question.
- suff 7y agoAlso, I agree. Emergent population behaviors do not equal a cabal. Nevertheless, emergent population behaviors exist. Humans work in their own self interest. NY is a big city with a lot of competition.
- cm2012 7y agoThe median personal income in the US, including all ages, is 30k per year. You're the one being a coastal elite here if you think the advice in this article isn't helpful to the average person.
- suff 7y agoOK, so when they have a section titled "San Francisco is not for you", you pay attention, you read the programming, you accept it as truth, and then you work until you are 73. YMMV. Good for you. Good luck.
- onlyrealcuzzo 7y agoSuff's comment, at best, is humble bragging. I found it pretty disgusting, to be honest. Implying that the ordinary person has the opportunity to make more than another person's entire family is -- by it's nature -- a joke. You can't be anywhere near average and make more earn more than 3+ average people. Using a normal distribution, that puts you a MINIMUM of 3 standard deviations above average -- literally the 0.1%. Using the actual income distribution (since it's distinctively NOT normal) -- it puts you in the top 2%. But if you actually work for a living (as opposed to collect returns on investments), it's likely in the top 0.1%. A state senator is likely to be above average -- as are family members. In general, we don't strive to elect average. We strive to elect excellence. Maybe it was meant to be a pep-talk. But just because one person dropped out of school and did well, doesn't mean that everyone can do the same. Maybe the OP is a genius. If not, he got lucky. And not everyone can be a genius or lucky.
- suff 7y agoBeing intentionally vague about income metrics by diffusing it among a population. State senator salaries are publicly available, so really more than anything making the point that I'm not some keyboard warrior making $1 over the median wage, trying to give advice. Hopefully it comes across as useful to some. Apologies for my lack of context.