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The cause and effect here makes no sense. The authors say one reason for the discount is the Tesla Model 3 is selling at $36,200, but "Tesla hasn't actually del
by BrentOzar 7y ago
The cause and effect here makes no sense. The authors say one reason for the discount is the Tesla Model 3 is selling at $36,200, but "Tesla hasn't actually delivered any yet at that price point" (article quote, not mine) and that's why Chevy needs to discount the Bolt to $18,995.
That's like saying wireless chargers on Amazon have to discount down to $13.99 because Apple promised to sell the AirPower someday. Those two things are just unrelated: it might be plain old supply and demand.
My guess: Chevy has to discount the Bolt because it's simply not selling that well. They already had to discontinue the Volt, their plug-in hybrid.
- kmonsen 7y agoBolt is getting outdated, and I think for example the Kona EV is more competition. And I don't really see any good reason to get the Bolt.
- brianwawok 7y agoAt 10k off, it might be a fine EV grocery getter. Right now a lot of people buy 4-5 year old leafs for like ~10k as EV grocery getters
- madengr 7y agoYep, I bought a 2 year old one with 19k miles for $8,500.
- bogomipz 7y agoWow, is that a normal price though for a 2 year old Leaf? Was it so cheap simply because they depreciate that much? I imagine much of it would still be under warranty too as well no?
- brianwawok 7y agoThey were fairly cheap to begin with. A new battery is like 6k so that’s s big chunk of the price drop. If you can deal with old battery though you are golden.
- jdhn 7y agoIs there a catch to this? I know that Leaf batteries aren't liquid cooled which degrades them a lot quicker than liquid cooled batteries, but still that's an absurdly good deal.
- ip26 7y agoMight just be the fact that they are quickly getting dated, especially the models with less than 100 miles of range new. Like back when you upgraded your computer every 18 months.
- brianwawok 7y agoIn 4-5 years tour range is half if rated. Half that in winter. Should get you to the grocery store :)
- madengr 7y agoNo catch. A 2015 base model with fast charger option. Bought it in 2017. A ton of these 2015 were coming off 2 year leases in 2017, and I bought it off a guy who re-sells then from auctions. So I wonder what he got it for at auction?
- davidrm 7y agojesus christ the us market is amazing. (yea yea there are trade offs)
- madengr 7y agoWhy would it be outdated? It has 200+ miles range.
- RankingMember 7y agoI don't think it's outdated, but it just doesn't have the features (semi-autonomous driving, slick minimalist if controversially-so interior, OTA updates, etc.) you get with a Tesla. It's like comparing an original 2007 Apple iPhone to a 2007 Palm Centro.
- dmitrygr 7y agoRandom and uncontrollable shuffling of the software in your car is a FEATURE?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- RankingMember 7y agoI would definitely consider having your braking/acceleration/navigation/security upgraded without a visit to a service center a feature.
- dmitrygr 7y agoUntil a bug disables them, Yes. Raise your hand if you know of someone who writes bug free code.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- willhk 7y agoYes, nobody writes bug free code and that's why having a car that can't update software OTA is a good thing. Got it. I do enjoy knowing that if a bug crops up I have to schedule an appointment at the dealership and take a day off work to drop it off to be upgraded instead of waking up to a bugfix having been already deployed.
- rayiner 7y agoAlso, the cars are competing in completely different markets. A better reference might be that a base 2019 leaf is now $23,000 or so with tax credit: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/nissan/leaf/2019/2019-nissan-leaf-plus-first-test-review https://www.motortrend.com/cars/nissan/leaf/2019/2019-nissan....
- slg 7y ago>"Tesla hasn't actually delivered any yet at that price point" (article quote, not mine) The article is wrong. The first $35k models started being delivered a couple weeks back.
- CarVac 7y agoThe article is also dated from April 1… which makes it a little out of date on top of being suspect in other ways.
- slg 7y agoMy fault, I should have checked the date of the article. I do wonder why this month old post from this amateurish looking car blog is currently the second highest post on HN.
- symlinkk 7y agoYeah but a couple weeks after that Tesla changed the trims you could get and made the cheapest one $39.5k.
- leesec 7y agoYou can still call the dealership and have them discount your car and get a software limited version of that vehicle for less.
- slg 7y agoYeah, they obviously want an opportunity to upsell you so they make you speak to a person to get the $35k model. It is a bad business practice from a consumer perspective, but if you have ever purchased a car from a dealer you know this type of upselling is unfortunately standard for the industry. At least Tesla won't try to sell you on rustproofing and tire warranties.
- jsgo 7y agoI'm curious, can you "upgrade" your car after the fact? Buy it and then later on call Tesla and pay for the software-controlled 'upgrade' you declined before? Is there any negative financial impact to it (are there fees attached or is it basically the difference you didn't pay prior)?
- bwanab 7y agoI'm not sure it makes no sense. I bought a Model 3 because I didn't see enough of a price difference to be worth the difference in the cars. I would have been willing to go with a less capable car if I'd felt the price was right. When I was evaluating, a tricked out Bolt was over $40,000 and still wasn't as capable as a Model 3 which was admittedly more expensive but, to me, worth it.
- PButtNutter 7y agoI think it's maybe more likely a result of car sales being down in general. Nisan light vehicle sales are down 7.8% (~35,000 vehicles) when comparing the first 4 months of 2018 to the first 4 months of 2019. https://www.autonews.com/sales/sales-fall-saar-dips-1641-million https://www.autonews.com/sales/sales-fall-saar-dips-1641-mil...
- throwaway55554 7y agoHow do you get people to read your article about Chevy? Mention Tesla.
- lostmsu 7y agoHere I applaud Chevrolet for being ingenious. Tesla PR techniques literally cost people lifes.
- dragontamer 7y agoHeh, worked on me. So I can't really complain about the strategy. Still, it is annoying clickbait.
- throwaway5752 7y agoThey discontinued the Volt because they closed the only plant that built it (Lordstown). That also included the Cruze, the Impala, two Cadillacs, and a Buick.
- csours 7y agoAlmost - Lordstown only built the Cruze. Detroit Hamtramck builds the others. Disclaimer: I work for GM
- throwaway5752 7y agoSorry, hard to keep track of unallocations between there, Oshawa, and Detroit. Per your sibling comment (if you can answer) - was it the plant closure that led to the Volt being discontinued, or was that just coincident with it being discontinued because of the ZEV/PHEV credit rule change?
- WorldMaker 7y agoThe Volt was discontinued with the plant closure and the decision to stop making all sedans, according to shareholder PR at the time of the plant closure. (Still six degrees of stupid that made me as an extremely minor shareholder somewhat dissatisfied. The Gen 1 Volt was a hatchback and near the cross-over border line. An intent at building it at Hamtranck was to push the plant towards cross-overs. The Gen 2 retooled the Volt to a more traditional sedan and more clearly Cruze relative, which presumably was a cost savings at Hamtranck, but put the Volt right on the chopping block for the plant closure a couple years later. Even ignoring that GM probably only closed Sedans because they were playing shareholder-peer-pressure follow the leader since Ford did it, throwing away the Volt was so many orders of magnitude of stupid. Expect GM to announce a new cross-over in one or three years looking almost just like the Gen 1 Volt and with an entirely new name because that would be less confusing to consumers than not discontinuing the Volt at all.)
- csours 7y agoI'm sure this is the sort of thing I'm not supposed to comment on, but fortunately I also don't have any inside knowledge. One may gain some insight from looking at sales numbers.
- sgustard 7y agoI look forward to the day when there are enough EV models that it's not assumed all EVs are interchangeable. You wouldn't see an article suggesting that BMW 330i sales are cannibalizing Honda Civics.
- benj111 7y agoIf the 330i were the same price as the Civic, then wouldn't that be possible? Although it may be difficult to establish cause and effect. I think it's more the case that EV pricing is in flux at the moment, so you get situations like this where 2 cars from different segments were priced the same.
- drb91 7y agoI thought the primary advantage tesla cars have over others is the charging network—these cars are already easily differentiated. I’m also sure people are enthused about quality and self driving but that doesn’t do much for me.
- heurist 7y agoI charge my hybrid for free at a ChargePoint station near my office. My wife likes to charge her electric car at an outlet mall when she goes into town. I don't take my car on long distance trips so I'm not sure if there would be a benefit to the Tesla network for that, but I've never had an issue finding a place to charge.
- bjelkeman-again 7y agoWhen driving five hundred miles or so, taking a quick break ever few hours to take a bio break and something to eat, is perfect for me. When I get back to the car it is ready to go again. No problems with payments, hardly a broken charger, not crowded (in Sweden). Friends who have other electric cars have big issues with these things. The Tesla Network makes a huge difference for me.
- mohaine 7y ago
- dragontamer 7y ago> My guess: Chevy has to discount the Bolt because it's simply not selling that well. They already had to discontinue the Volt, their plug-in hybrid. All auto-companies are showing declining sales. Ford, GM, Toyota, and Tesla. I think your supposition here is most correct. The car market is declining, so the various car companies are now cutting prices and competing on price even more strongly. Some car models will be cut out and discontinued as a result.
- close04 7y agoCars are more and more reliable so people can hang on to them for longer. We're also at a milestone, crossing from ICEs to EVs and this may discourage people from actually committing to a new car.
- dragontamer 7y agoSimpler than that. The car market is cyclical. When people buy a car, it takes another 5+ years before those people decide to buy another car. It seems the last "boom" cycle was 2018 or so. So we're now entering the years where most people are NOT buying cars. In 2023 or so, all of the buyers from 2018 will be buying cars again. There's nothing mystical about this behavior, its just how the crowds work in general. https://www.autonews.com/sales/sales-fall-saar-dips-1641-million https://www.autonews.com/sales/sales-fall-saar-dips-1641-mil...
- londons_explore 7y agoI don't see any self-synchronising effect in crowds... In fact, if anything, instant supply and demand would reward those who buy out-of-phase with the majority.
- dragontamer 7y agoIn theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there's a big difference. The car auto cycle is well known and well documented. I don't think there's any good economic theory to describe why it exists... it just... exists... for whatever reason. > instant supply and demand Instant supply and demand certainly doesn't exist in practice, even if we assume it to exist in theory. It takes over a year for factories to be built, and when people hear news about a new car, it can take months (or even years) before they decide they want that particular car. Humans work on a monthly time-scale, even if we assume in economics that their decisions are made instantaneously.
- gordon_freeman 7y agoOne of the big concerns for buying an electric car for someone like me is the range anxiety and not practical enough if I could not take it to long drives (SF to LA for ex). Tesla has actually solved this problem on 3 fronts: having its own charging n/w around the majority of US highways, having more energy efficient batteries that can drive to 300+ miles on a single charge, and making the charging process speedier with superchargers. Until other car manufacturers do this, I am not convinced to buy anything except a Tesla.
- myself248 7y agoThat's just it. My daily commute is quite normal, easily within the range of a Leaf or whatever, but I also enjoy frequent roadtrips to Chicago, Cleveland, Dayton, Toronto, occasionally Kansas City or Washington DC. Most of those are weekend jaunts, but there are longer trips too – I drove to Eagle Harbor last summer and Orlando over the holidays. I’ll probably drive to NYC this summer, as I have in 4 of the last 10 years. I love roadtrips and consider them a wonderful part of the American experience. The standard EV-evangelist response to this is “take the train” or “rent a car for the weekend”, but I’m sorry, those just aren’t comfortable for me – the train lacks the freedom and sense of adventure, and rentals usually smell funny, among other things. Altering my lifestyle to suit the car’s limitations means it was the wrong car in the first place: The car should serve me, not the other way around. The Tesla’s longer range and presence of Supercharger stations along the routes are totally irrelevant for my daily commute, but they completely change the game when you include my other driving. With any other EV, I would need a second car to address the other part of my usage, and that means twice the insurance, twice the registration cost, twice the driveway-space, and the chance of forgetting something important in the one car while I’m using the other. And feeling like a glutton for owning an “extra” vehicle. That being said, I still haven't bought a Tesla for a handful of reasons, but nothing else even comes close to meeting my needs.
- dragontamer 7y agoI'm curious, why aren't you looking into PHEVs? Prius, GM Volt, and Honda Clarity? With 50 mile all-electric range available, these cars can be pure electric in most daily-driver situations. In fact, Volt drivers are reporting 85% electric to 15% gasoline usage, typically (with those gasoline usage being those long trips that rack up a lot of miles). With Gen1 Volts hitting 100k miles, its more or less proven itself as a methodology and as a general technology. Unfortunately, Volt has been discontinued, but the Honda Clarity is basically an identical vehicle (albeit offered by a different car company).
- lowdose 7y agoAccording to Elon the model 3 will have a ROI of 200k if customers decide to participate in the robotaxi fleet. So it could be that this 10k is the robotaxi discount.
- TuringNYC 7y agoNot saying Model 3s are vapourware, but this is a pretty common result of exciting promised releases on competitors.