5 ms·

In what way was MS sinking under Ballmer? Maybe they were not exciting but they were super profitable every year. I think it's more about better PR. Not everyt

In what way was MS sinking under Ballmer? Maybe they were not exciting but they were super profitable every year. I think it's more about better PR. Not everything is golden at MS now either. I am working on creating a platform for our medical software on Windows 10 and it really makes me want to switch to Linux or iOS. Windows is a big mess of old and new code and attempts of sandboxing like iOS but only half-hearted. Keeping up with the semi-annual channel is also insane. I would much prefer annual or biannual releases that are actually stable. It's a very developer unfriendly platform now.

tabs_masterrace 7y ago
Windows always been a pain to develop for. And every Windows version redundantly includes "a new api for everything" alongside all the horrible legacy stuff. But Microsoft's recent efforts on Linux & macOS, i.e. VSCode, has been surprisingly good. They do a lot of things, I think Typescript is run by MS as well. So that's something that positively changed under Nadella.
- tabtab 7y ago
  I believe this is because MS wants to move away from being an OS provider to being a service provider. If a service runs on Linux they won't care as long as its generating revenue for them. Whether this is Nadella's push or obvious from MS's accountants is hard to say.
  - maxxxxx 7y ago
    They may turn into an IBM variation long term. Profitable, stable business. Not glamorous, but good money.
    - Zanni 7y ago
      As a Microsoft shareholder, this was my favorite line from the article: "for Microsoft, 'profitable and boring' is just a longer way of saying 'profitable.'"
    - bnt 7y ago
      Don’t all companies become IBM at some point?
      - maxxxxx 7y ago
        Probably.
        tabtab 7y ago
        So it's kind of like baldness?
- jonny_eh 7y ago
  TypeScript came about in 2011, while Ballmer was CEO.
criddell 7y ago
> In what way was MS sinking under Ballmer? In a relative way. If you are going to talk about operating systems, iOS and Android/Linux blew by Windows on his watch despite Microsoft's big head start in the smartphone space. I think that's directly the result of Microsoft not being exciting.
- cutenewt 7y ago
  MS also had a big head start on Tablets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC
- scarface74 7y ago
  And how much has Android “winning” help Google? From the Oracle trial, it came out that Android has only made Google $21 billion in profit during its entire existence and the largest market for “Android”, China, doesn’t make Google one dime.
  - criddell 7y ago
    Google has generated tens of billions of dollars in profit (and a lot of money for Microsoft via licensing). iOS turned Apple into a trillion dollar company. Meanwhile it's not clear if Microsoft made anything from their Windows Phone investment.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Again not according to official court records. iOS turned Apple into a trillion dollar company because of hardware sells. Selling phones haven’t been profitable for any Android manufacturer. Even Samsung’s ASP is around $270 for phones.
      - criddell 7y ago
        I'm not sure what your point is. Microsoft sells hardware as well. If anything, that's another nail in Ballmer's coffin.
coryrc 7y ago
Blowing billions regularly on terrible acquisitions? aQuantive, Nokia, more...
98codes 7y ago
Is "opportunity sinking" a thing? Remaining stagnant for years and years when there was growth to be had if only Microsoft would go after it was on Ballmer.
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  They grew under Ballmer almost every quarter. Yes, they missed opportunities but by any standard it was a highly profitable and successful company.
cutenewt 7y ago
Remember this comic: https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/50a25c45eab8ea8c41000000-480-359.jpg https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/50a25c45eab8ea8c41000... Ballmer brewed the culture to be like that. It's not like that at MSFT anymore.
- lostmsu 7y ago
  Ha-ha-ha, tell it to the folks driving UWP vs WPF debacle.
- yellowapple 7y ago
  The rest of the comic, for those curious about how the other big companies compare: http://bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts http://bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
True that. Windows always had its warts, just like everything else, but it didn't used to make me want to strangle someone like it does today.
OkGoDoIt 7y ago
I mostly agree, I’ve been a .net developer for over a decade and the current state of things is very wonky. For the past couple years I’ve been unsure where to focus my efforts to make sure I don’t wind up in another situation where I get very good at Silverlight just to have it all thrown away. At this point with Microsoft half backing away from UWP and half continuing to push it, I don’t know if it’s better for me to make the jump or not. Also it’s more clear now that .net Core the future, but for a while it’s been very confusing and it’s still not 100% clear if it’s going to encompass all the scenarios I need or if I’m going to have to keep abreast of both sides. Rather than staying at the bleeding edge of .net like I used to, I’ve been finding it safer to just give it space and wait for things to solidify. All in all, developing for the Microsoft platform has become very confusing over the past several years. Still better than trying to keep up to date on the NodeJS or frontend development world though :-P

tabs_masterrace 7y ago

Windows always been a pain to develop for. And every Windows version redundantly includes "a new api for everything" alongside all the horrible legacy stuff. But Microsoft's recent efforts on Linux & macOS, i.e. VSCode, has been surprisingly good. They do a lot of things, I think Typescript is run by MS as well. So that's something that positively changed under Nadella.

tabtab 7y ago
I believe this is because MS wants to move away from being an OS provider to being a service provider. If a service runs on Linux they won't care as long as its generating revenue for them. Whether this is Nadella's push or obvious from MS's accountants is hard to say.
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  They may turn into an IBM variation long term. Profitable, stable business. Not glamorous, but good money.
  - Zanni 7y ago
    As a Microsoft shareholder, this was my favorite line from the article: "for Microsoft, 'profitable and boring' is just a longer way of saying 'profitable.'"
  - bnt 7y ago
    Don’t all companies become IBM at some point?
    - maxxxxx 7y ago
      Probably.
      - tabtab 7y ago
        So it's kind of like baldness?
jonny_eh 7y ago
TypeScript came about in 2011, while Ballmer was CEO.

criddell 7y ago

> In what way was MS sinking under Ballmer? In a relative way. If you are going to talk about operating systems, iOS and Android/Linux blew by Windows on his watch despite Microsoft's big head start in the smartphone space. I think that's directly the result of Microsoft not being exciting.

cutenewt 7y ago
MS also had a big head start on Tablets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC
scarface74 7y ago
And how much has Android “winning” help Google? From the Oracle trial, it came out that Android has only made Google $21 billion in profit during its entire existence and the largest market for “Android”, China, doesn’t make Google one dime.
- criddell 7y ago
  Google has generated tens of billions of dollars in profit (and a lot of money for Microsoft via licensing). iOS turned Apple into a trillion dollar company. Meanwhile it's not clear if Microsoft made anything from their Windows Phone investment.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Again not according to official court records. iOS turned Apple into a trillion dollar company because of hardware sells. Selling phones haven’t been profitable for any Android manufacturer. Even Samsung’s ASP is around $270 for phones.
    - criddell 7y ago
      I'm not sure what your point is. Microsoft sells hardware as well. If anything, that's another nail in Ballmer's coffin.

coryrc 7y ago

Blowing billions regularly on terrible acquisitions? aQuantive, Nokia, more...

98codes 7y ago

Is "opportunity sinking" a thing? Remaining stagnant for years and years when there was growth to be had if only Microsoft would go after it was on Ballmer.

maxxxxx 7y ago
They grew under Ballmer almost every quarter. Yes, they missed opportunities but by any standard it was a highly profitable and successful company.

cutenewt 7y ago

Remember this comic: https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/50a25c45eab8ea8c41000000-480-359.jpg https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/50a25c45eab8ea8c41000... Ballmer brewed the culture to be like that. It's not like that at MSFT anymore.

lostmsu 7y ago
Ha-ha-ha, tell it to the folks driving UWP vs WPF debacle.
yellowapple 7y ago
The rest of the comic, for those curious about how the other big companies compare: http://bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts http://bonkersworld.net/organizational-charts

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago

True that. Windows always had its warts, just like everything else, but it didn't used to make me want to strangle someone like it does today.

OkGoDoIt 7y ago

I mostly agree, I’ve been a .net developer for over a decade and the current state of things is very wonky. For the past couple years I’ve been unsure where to focus my efforts to make sure I don’t wind up in another situation where I get very good at Silverlight just to have it all thrown away. At this point with Microsoft half backing away from UWP and half continuing to push it, I don’t know if it’s better for me to make the jump or not. Also it’s more clear now that .net Core the future, but for a while it’s been very confusing and it’s still not 100% clear if it’s going to encompass all the scenarios I need or if I’m going to have to keep abreast of both sides. Rather than staying at the bleeding edge of .net like I used to, I’ve been finding it safer to just give it space and wait for things to solidify. All in all, developing for the Microsoft platform has become very confusing over the past several years. Still better than trying to keep up to date on the NodeJS or frontend development world though :-P