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'justcodebruh' your comment is marked as dead, but to answer your question I work on Google's privacy engineering team.

by aiiane 7y ago

dmitriid 7y ago
Your team is doing a shitty job, to be completely honest. This comment and all the comments beliw it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19809168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19809168
- halfmatthalfcat 7y ago
  LOL rather than applaud some modicum of privacy we may be getting back, you decide to denigrate. Should we all hold this cynical attitude and hope for no progress at all?
  - dmitriid 7y ago
    We should all hold companies accountable and not celebrate every “modicum of privacy”. Look at what companies do, not what they say they do. Yay, you can delete all your data... says the company which puts hidden microphones in consumer products, leaks copious amounts of user data across unrelated services, releases a browser which automatically logs you in to google services, lifted its ban on personally identifiable info in its ad service etc. etc.
    - joshuamorton 7y ago
      So are you claiming that you can't actually delete your data? Or are you saying that letting you delete your data isn't a thing? Because "letting you delete your data" seems to be a thing the company is doing. Which you say we should look at.
      - dmitriid 7y ago
        No one can say for certain how, and when they delete the data. Even the person from the privacy team said as much. Moreover, this is a very, very, very small "modicum of privacy". A very small number of users will use that. It makes the company look good, for sure [1], but it will in no way, shape, or form affect what they are already doing, and will continue doing. Should we celebrate them for being so gracious as to let the users delete their own data? Well, it's literally the least they should do anyway (once again, [1]). [1] I wonder how much of this is related to GDPR, which requires Google to provide users with means to delete their data.
        joshuamorton 7y ago
        > No one can say for certain how, and when they delete the data. Even the person from the privacy team said as much. You and I read very different comments. Not being able to tell you, a random HN commented, the exact procedure by which a specific piece of data's lifetime is managed is different than not being able to, in the abstract, describe, monitor, and alert on the intended lifecycle of a piece of data. > I wonder how much of this is related to GDPR, Probably not at all: Google was already GDPR compliant (it was already possible to manually delete your data), this goes beyond the GDPR mandate, and allows you to set a ttl on your data, essentially. It's becoming more apparent to me that you, either intentionally or not, aren't clear on what the status quo was, or what this change changed. To be clear, deleting your location data has always been possible (or at least, has been possible for a long time). There's a UI for it. This is, in addition to being able to manually delete data, have Google automatically delete any data older than a certain time.
        dmitriid 7y ago
        > It's becoming more apparent to me that you, either intentionally or not, aren't clear on what the status quo was, or what this change changed. It's becoming more apparent that the whole conversation kinda derailed from "privacy engineering team" which engineers privacy (whatever that means at Google) does a shitty job to "we should celebrate them for doing just the minimum amount of work for something that has already been possible, if spread across many UIs". Literally despite multiple complaints about how Google handles data with regards to location and activity tracking (original complaint: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19809168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19809168, summary: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19812861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19812861), the "privacy engineering team" answers "just disable it": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810083 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810083 This is what I'm talking about, and this is the status quo that was, is, and is going to be in the future.
  - abugheratwork 7y ago
    He didn't tell everyone to hold the same attitude. He said they're doing a shitty job, and he provided a great example. Rude, but true, and I would argue helpful. Sorry you're not enjoying reading it.
- qntty 7y ago
  People will be more likely to consider your criticism if you are specific. Can you recommend an incremental improvement that aiiane could push for?
  - dmitriid 7y ago
    Literally the very first sentence in the comment I linked: "they might do better to remove the requirement to have the Web/Location/App history enabled for apparently unrelated features." And then that comment, and the first comment below it, describe the ways this can be improved. And then comment upon comment upon comment: - I cant store my home location in Google Maps without turning on Web & App activity history. Why? - I cant share my current location (not historic, just my latest location - they only need to store one) with my partner unless I turn on Web and Location history. Why? - Google will still let you store your home address and they'll display it on the map, but if you have Location History turned off they'll refuse to list it as an autocomplete option when you search for addresses or directions. Why? - Google Home and Android Auto require all of these settings to be enabled. Why? - Can't subscribe to podcasts if web activity is disabled. Why? All the above are severe breaches of privacy, requiring the user to enable data collection by Google for features that have nothing to do with this data. But yay, hurray, they will graciously let us delete our data.
- dang 7y ago
  Attacking another user like that will get you banned here. No matter how you feel about privacy or Google or anything, please follow the site guidelines, and please don't post here if you can't treat your fellow community members with respect. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
justcodebruh 7y ago
thanks

'justcodebruh' your comment is marked as dead, but to answer your question I work on Google's privacy engineering team.

by aiiane 7y ago

'justcodebruh' your comment is marked as dead, but to answer your question I work on Google's privacy engineering team.

Your team is doing a shitty job, to be completely honest. This comment and all the comments beliw it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19809168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19809168

halfmatthalfcat 7y ago
LOL rather than applaud some modicum of privacy we may be getting back, you decide to denigrate. Should we all hold this cynical attitude and hope for no progress at all?
- dmitriid 7y ago
  We should all hold companies accountable and not celebrate every “modicum of privacy”. Look at what companies do, not what they say they do. Yay, you can delete all your data... says the company which puts hidden microphones in consumer products, leaks copious amounts of user data across unrelated services, releases a browser which automatically logs you in to google services, lifted its ban on personally identifiable info in its ad service etc. etc.
  - joshuamorton 7y ago
    So are you claiming that you can't actually delete your data? Or are you saying that letting you delete your data isn't a thing? Because "letting you delete your data" seems to be a thing the company is doing. Which you say we should look at.
    - dmitriid 7y ago
      No one can say for certain how, and when they delete the data. Even the person from the privacy team said as much. Moreover, this is a very, very, very small "modicum of privacy". A very small number of users will use that. It makes the company look good, for sure [1], but it will in no way, shape, or form affect what they are already doing, and will continue doing. Should we celebrate them for being so gracious as to let the users delete their own data? Well, it's literally the least they should do anyway (once again, [1]). [1] I wonder how much of this is related to GDPR, which requires Google to provide users with means to delete their data.
      - joshuamorton 7y ago
        > No one can say for certain how, and when they delete the data. Even the person from the privacy team said as much. You and I read very different comments. Not being able to tell you, a random HN commented, the exact procedure by which a specific piece of data's lifetime is managed is different than not being able to, in the abstract, describe, monitor, and alert on the intended lifecycle of a piece of data. > I wonder how much of this is related to GDPR, Probably not at all: Google was already GDPR compliant (it was already possible to manually delete your data), this goes beyond the GDPR mandate, and allows you to set a ttl on your data, essentially. It's becoming more apparent to me that you, either intentionally or not, aren't clear on what the status quo was, or what this change changed. To be clear, deleting your location data has always been possible (or at least, has been possible for a long time). There's a UI for it. This is, in addition to being able to manually delete data, have Google automatically delete any data older than a certain time.
        dmitriid 7y ago
        > It's becoming more apparent to me that you, either intentionally or not, aren't clear on what the status quo was, or what this change changed. It's becoming more apparent that the whole conversation kinda derailed from "privacy engineering team" which engineers privacy (whatever that means at Google) does a shitty job to "we should celebrate them for doing just the minimum amount of work for something that has already been possible, if spread across many UIs". Literally despite multiple complaints about how Google handles data with regards to location and activity tracking (original complaint: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19809168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19809168, summary: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19812861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19812861), the "privacy engineering team" answers "just disable it": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810083 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19810083 This is what I'm talking about, and this is the status quo that was, is, and is going to be in the future.
- abugheratwork 7y ago
  He didn't tell everyone to hold the same attitude. He said they're doing a shitty job, and he provided a great example. Rude, but true, and I would argue helpful. Sorry you're not enjoying reading it.
qntty 7y ago
People will be more likely to consider your criticism if you are specific. Can you recommend an incremental improvement that aiiane could push for?
- dmitriid 7y ago
  Literally the very first sentence in the comment I linked: "they might do better to remove the requirement to have the Web/Location/App history enabled for apparently unrelated features." And then that comment, and the first comment below it, describe the ways this can be improved. And then comment upon comment upon comment: - I cant store my home location in Google Maps without turning on Web & App activity history. Why? - I cant share my current location (not historic, just my latest location - they only need to store one) with my partner unless I turn on Web and Location history. Why? - Google will still let you store your home address and they'll display it on the map, but if you have Location History turned off they'll refuse to list it as an autocomplete option when you search for addresses or directions. Why? - Google Home and Android Auto require all of these settings to be enabled. Why? - Can't subscribe to podcasts if web activity is disabled. Why? All the above are severe breaches of privacy, requiring the user to enable data collection by Google for features that have nothing to do with this data. But yay, hurray, they will graciously let us delete our data.
dang 7y ago
Attacking another user like that will get you banned here. No matter how you feel about privacy or Google or anything, please follow the site guidelines, and please don't post here if you can't treat your fellow community members with respect. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

justcodebruh 7y ago

thanks