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The comment to which I was replying implied that participating in a kickstarter was like being an investor (from context, in the financial sense of that word).

The comment to which I was replying implied that participating in a kickstarter was like being an investor (from context, in the financial sense of that word). So we're talking financial investments, not regular exercise. In the financial sense, an investment is where you put money in with the hope of getting more money out. There are levels of risk, and generally the more risky the investment the higher the expected payout. That's not what kickstarter is, at all, as you have zero chance of getting more money out (in this kickstarter for example) you're giving someone money in exchange for the hope of a product downt the line.

Retric 8y ago
Nothing in that post mentioned monetary returns. Still, you can get more value out than you put in depending on how you value the output. Many kickstarter’s are not items that you can buy but rather art projects. How valuable is it for something to exist in this world even if you don’t own it? Now, that’s less true if games or flashlights. But, even if that specific item does not get created simply proving a market for it exists can provide value. Consider, if 10$ helps creat a great restaurant near you. Simply being able to eat at it would provide value even without getting a discount.
- raesene9 8y ago
  So when someone uses the phrase (which is what I responded to) "remember that you’re playing the role of an investor, rather than a consumer" you don't take from it that this was meant as a short-hand for financial investor? If not then semantic differnce, but there is a persistent meme whenever kickstarter is discussed on HN that backing is akin to financial investment rather than purchase, and I disagree with that meme. Sure you can back something purely for the hope that it will happen, and I've done that, but you're not a financial investor in that product/service/etc
  - Retric 8y ago
    It’s descriptive as you are a financial investor as you’re investing money not time etc. I think they promote the term backers which is also used for people who donate to charity. Unlike with charity you can get meaningful payout rather than a token item. Still, the highest rewards are often symbolic in nature just like charity’s “gold donor” lists etc.
    - raesene9 8y ago
      To quote https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use "When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers. " if a kickstarter has symbolic rewards, then sure that's fine. But otherwise it's a contractual obligation to provide a reward in exchange for money. Not a donation, not an investment.
      - Retric 8y ago
        A bond is a contract with specific terms and an investment at the same time. The only real difference between a kickstarter and a bond is handing back money vs handing back something other than money. Well, granted interest payments don’t compound.

Retric 8y ago

Nothing in that post mentioned monetary returns. Still, you can get more value out than you put in depending on how you value the output. Many kickstarter’s are not items that you can buy but rather art projects. How valuable is it for something to exist in this world even if you don’t own it? Now, that’s less true if games or flashlights. But, even if that specific item does not get created simply proving a market for it exists can provide value. Consider, if 10$ helps creat a great restaurant near you. Simply being able to eat at it would provide value even without getting a discount.

raesene9 8y ago
So when someone uses the phrase (which is what I responded to) "remember that you’re playing the role of an investor, rather than a consumer" you don't take from it that this was meant as a short-hand for financial investor? If not then semantic differnce, but there is a persistent meme whenever kickstarter is discussed on HN that backing is akin to financial investment rather than purchase, and I disagree with that meme. Sure you can back something purely for the hope that it will happen, and I've done that, but you're not a financial investor in that product/service/etc
- Retric 8y ago
  It’s descriptive as you are a financial investor as you’re investing money not time etc. I think they promote the term backers which is also used for people who donate to charity. Unlike with charity you can get meaningful payout rather than a token item. Still, the highest rewards are often symbolic in nature just like charity’s “gold donor” lists etc.
  - raesene9 8y ago
    To quote https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use "When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers. " if a kickstarter has symbolic rewards, then sure that's fine. But otherwise it's a contractual obligation to provide a reward in exchange for money. Not a donation, not an investment.
    - Retric 8y ago
      A bond is a contract with specific terms and an investment at the same time. The only real difference between a kickstarter and a bond is handing back money vs handing back something other than money. Well, granted interest payments don’t compound.