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It's certainly possible that Stripe is offering productivity as the reason for their embrace of remote work when it's really about cheaper labor, but I'm hopefu

by dhd415 7y ago

It's certainly possible that Stripe is offering productivity as the reason for their embrace of remote work when it's really about cheaper labor, but I'm hopeful. I know there are other companies where those decisions are transparently about lowering costs, but if what you say about remote workers typically getting less equity is true, too, that's pretty disappointing.

throwaway4721 7y ago
Honestly I don’t know how fair businesses can be with respect to this while being economically rational. Differences in markets are very real, and if you can get good developers who can’t work in the US for less, why not? It’s not surprising the Zoom founder tried so hard to make it to America.
Bartweiss 7y ago
Buffer (which has been remote-heavy for a long time) handled this by explicitly breaking their salary assessment into multiple elements. In addition to base salary-for-role and various experience adjustments, they have a public "price sheet" describing the cost of living adjustments they apply for different locations. It's not a perfect system, I'm sure. CoL is reduced to three fairly broad bands, and other pay elements like experience and performance are potentially skewed by remote status. But I think it's an appealing approach in general. Candidates know in advance what to expect and can move somewhere more expensive without needing to find a new job. Meanwhile, the company saves some money, but still gets access to remote candidates in expensive cities where they don't have offices. I suppose it would drive away any remote worker who's consciously living somewhere cheap to increase effective salary, but presumably that's offset by getting access to people in DC, NYC, Boston, etc. who aren't open to other cost-saving remote jobs.
- aantix 7y ago
  Why would the cost of living factor into salary at all? I write the code. I offer architectural decisions. I'm working on the most demanded features by the customers, bringing more value to the product. What if I pair program on a feature from a person in SF? My efforts are still paid less. Who cares if I wrote the code from SF or Vietnam. I wish more remote workers would stand up to these businesses looking for a way to lower their costs. As for the engineers, the whole "midwest nice", "flyover feebleness", "sure is great to just have an opportunity to work remotely" mindset has to change. Don't let them discount your value.
  - sciurus 7y ago
    Stand up to them by doing what? Moving to SF? Turning down the job and working for a local company that pays even less?
    - aantix 7y ago
      Put multiple offers against each other? If you're already in a remote engineering position, show that you bring more value than Tom in SF, even though he's paid more.
      - redisman 7y ago
        That's pretty difficult right now since not that many companies offer remote (yet).

by dhd415 7y ago

throwaway4721 7y ago

Honestly I don’t know how fair businesses can be with respect to this while being economically rational. Differences in markets are very real, and if you can get good developers who can’t work in the US for less, why not? It’s not surprising the Zoom founder tried so hard to make it to America.

Bartweiss 7y ago

Buffer (which has been remote-heavy for a long time) handled this by explicitly breaking their salary assessment into multiple elements. In addition to base salary-for-role and various experience adjustments, they have a public "price sheet" describing the cost of living adjustments they apply for different locations. It's not a perfect system, I'm sure. CoL is reduced to three fairly broad bands, and other pay elements like experience and performance are potentially skewed by remote status. But I think it's an appealing approach in general. Candidates know in advance what to expect and can move somewhere more expensive without needing to find a new job. Meanwhile, the company saves some money, but still gets access to remote candidates in expensive cities where they don't have offices. I suppose it would drive away any remote worker who's consciously living somewhere cheap to increase effective salary, but presumably that's offset by getting access to people in DC, NYC, Boston, etc. who aren't open to other cost-saving remote jobs.

aantix 7y ago
Why would the cost of living factor into salary at all? I write the code. I offer architectural decisions. I'm working on the most demanded features by the customers, bringing more value to the product. What if I pair program on a feature from a person in SF? My efforts are still paid less. Who cares if I wrote the code from SF or Vietnam. I wish more remote workers would stand up to these businesses looking for a way to lower their costs. As for the engineers, the whole "midwest nice", "flyover feebleness", "sure is great to just have an opportunity to work remotely" mindset has to change. Don't let them discount your value.
- sciurus 7y ago
  Stand up to them by doing what? Moving to SF? Turning down the job and working for a local company that pays even less?
  - aantix 7y ago
    Put multiple offers against each other? If you're already in a remote engineering position, show that you bring more value than Tom in SF, even though he's paid more.
    - redisman 7y ago
      That's pretty difficult right now since not that many companies offer remote (yet).