6 ms·

From watching some videos on the workings of their factory, it still seems like they've automated significantly more than their competitors. They reached for th

From watching some videos on the workings of their factory, it still seems like they've automated significantly more than their competitors. They reached for the stars and fell short, but that short is still ground-breaking.

hef19898 7y ago
And resulted in production hell, didn't it?
- Aromasin 7y ago
  This is only going off of what I've read from private interviews with Tesla employees (I'm sure there are some lurking on HN that can give a better idea), but it seems the production hell came mostly from the constant product updates that were rolling through. A connector on a wire harness becomes obsolete, and all of a sudden your camera that picks out that connector from a bucket needs updating, the arm that grips it needs changing, the milling machine that machines the hole for the connector needs changing etc. One up-issue knocks on to the entire production process. This isn't an issue with humans. You tell them the new part they need to use and that's it.
- hi5eyes 7y ago
  building cars in a tent is called disruption
  - hef19898 7y ago
    That's called dilettantism at best combined with desperation. How would call manufacturing chips in a warehouse instead of a chip fab?
  - natch 7y ago
    Yep and scrappy, a very good attribute for a startup or even for a maturing silicon valley company.
golfer 7y ago
Tesla's manufacturing capabilities are child's play in the automotive industry. Nothing Tesla has done here is revolutionary. Their quality control is abysmal compared to other major OEMs. They make the Model 3 in a tent. There are regular garbage fires at their Fremont plant. https://boingboing.net/2018/08/24/fire-breaks-out-at-tesla-facto.html https://boingboing.net/2018/08/24/fire-breaks-out-at-tesla-f... And there was another one in February this year.
- tomnipotent 7y ago
  How are fires at a paint shop indicative of abysmal quality control?
  - hef19898 7y ago
    It is a sign for abysmal factory operations. And the first time pass rate is really bad compared to other OEMs.
    - tomnipotent 7y ago
      > It is a sign for abysmal factory operations. Not really. It's just a sign that their paint shop needs some work. > And the first time pass rate is really bad compared to other OEMs. For a few weeks in June. Great work taking isolated incidents and generalizing across the board.
      - golfer 7y ago
        The fires aren't just in the paint shop. They are all around the factory property. Inside and outside. Garbage fires on the lot happen about once a year. Regardless, you are trying to say that paint shop fires mean they just need a new paint shop. What I'm saying is that their entire manufacturing operation is amateurish compared to the rest of the auto industry.
        jsight 7y ago
gamblor956 7y ago
If you think Tesla's factory is amazing, you need to check out Toyota's factories. It's like the difference between a Fisher Price playset and Disneyland. Tesla talks big about automating...but Toyota actually did it, without fanfare, and managed to do so in a manner consistent with the kanban manufacturing philosophy that has defined their productivity and quality achievements of the past several decades
- jsight 7y ago
  Toyota used to produce ~440k cars out of that plant. Tesla does ~360k. I'm not sure that "fisher price playset" vs disneyland is the analogy that I'd use for that difference.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    NUMMI was Toyota's oldest and least productive US factory, and the cars were produced on contract for GM, which sold them under a GM brand. This is one of the reasons Toyota closed the plant and sold it to Tesla. NUMMI is also not the factory that Toyota shows off in its videos demonstrating the awesomeness of its manufacturing processes.
  - c0vfefe 7y ago
    There's more to plant quality than output alone. I'd expect a "disneyland" factory to have other metrics, like low rework, safety, worker satisfaction/retention, responsible procurement & disposal of raw materials, etc.
- m463 7y ago
  Are there decent videos of both factories to compare them? It might be interesting to see the state of the practice for an established player like Toyota. I also remember way back when steve jobs tried to automate the production of NeXT cubes and broke his company doing it. I think a lot of folks do this sort of "follow one philosophy" into ruin. They want to be amazing and lose sight of what's doable/affordable/realistic.
c0vfefe 7y ago
Often that's what it takes to achieve significant progress, even as an individual. Shoot for the stars and you'll likely see modest progress, but if you aim for mediocrity, you might not even attain that.

hef19898 7y ago

And resulted in production hell, didn't it?

Aromasin 7y ago
This is only going off of what I've read from private interviews with Tesla employees (I'm sure there are some lurking on HN that can give a better idea), but it seems the production hell came mostly from the constant product updates that were rolling through. A connector on a wire harness becomes obsolete, and all of a sudden your camera that picks out that connector from a bucket needs updating, the arm that grips it needs changing, the milling machine that machines the hole for the connector needs changing etc. One up-issue knocks on to the entire production process. This isn't an issue with humans. You tell them the new part they need to use and that's it.
hi5eyes 7y ago
building cars in a tent is called disruption
- hef19898 7y ago
  That's called dilettantism at best combined with desperation. How would call manufacturing chips in a warehouse instead of a chip fab?
- natch 7y ago
  Yep and scrappy, a very good attribute for a startup or even for a maturing silicon valley company.

golfer 7y ago

Tesla's manufacturing capabilities are child's play in the automotive industry. Nothing Tesla has done here is revolutionary. Their quality control is abysmal compared to other major OEMs. They make the Model 3 in a tent. There are regular garbage fires at their Fremont plant. https://boingboing.net/2018/08/24/fire-breaks-out-at-tesla-facto.html https://boingboing.net/2018/08/24/fire-breaks-out-at-tesla-f... And there was another one in February this year.

tomnipotent 7y ago
How are fires at a paint shop indicative of abysmal quality control?
- hef19898 7y ago
  It is a sign for abysmal factory operations. And the first time pass rate is really bad compared to other OEMs.
  - tomnipotent 7y ago
    > It is a sign for abysmal factory operations. Not really. It's just a sign that their paint shop needs some work. > And the first time pass rate is really bad compared to other OEMs. For a few weeks in June. Great work taking isolated incidents and generalizing across the board.
    - golfer 7y ago
      The fires aren't just in the paint shop. They are all around the factory property. Inside and outside. Garbage fires on the lot happen about once a year. Regardless, you are trying to say that paint shop fires mean they just need a new paint shop. What I'm saying is that their entire manufacturing operation is amateurish compared to the rest of the auto industry.
      - jsight 7y ago

gamblor956 7y ago

If you think Tesla's factory is amazing, you need to check out Toyota's factories. It's like the difference between a Fisher Price playset and Disneyland. Tesla talks big about automating...but Toyota actually did it, without fanfare, and managed to do so in a manner consistent with the kanban manufacturing philosophy that has defined their productivity and quality achievements of the past several decades

jsight 7y ago
Toyota used to produce ~440k cars out of that plant. Tesla does ~360k. I'm not sure that "fisher price playset" vs disneyland is the analogy that I'd use for that difference.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  NUMMI was Toyota's oldest and least productive US factory, and the cars were produced on contract for GM, which sold them under a GM brand. This is one of the reasons Toyota closed the plant and sold it to Tesla. NUMMI is also not the factory that Toyota shows off in its videos demonstrating the awesomeness of its manufacturing processes.
- c0vfefe 7y ago
  There's more to plant quality than output alone. I'd expect a "disneyland" factory to have other metrics, like low rework, safety, worker satisfaction/retention, responsible procurement & disposal of raw materials, etc.
m463 7y ago
Are there decent videos of both factories to compare them? It might be interesting to see the state of the practice for an established player like Toyota. I also remember way back when steve jobs tried to automate the production of NeXT cubes and broke his company doing it. I think a lot of folks do this sort of "follow one philosophy" into ruin. They want to be amazing and lose sight of what's doable/affordable/realistic.

c0vfefe 7y ago

Often that's what it takes to achieve significant progress, even as an individual. Shoot for the stars and you'll likely see modest progress, but if you aim for mediocrity, you might not even attain that.