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We use Slack, Zoom, Google Docs, Github, and a handful of other widely-adopted technologies. They're really good and we couldn't do this without them, but they'

We use Slack, Zoom, Google Docs, Github, and a handful of other widely-adopted technologies. They're really good and we couldn't do this without them, but they're probably not the lynchpin to making this work at scale. We're working constantly on improving the integration of peers throughout the company. Something Stripe Atlas does, for example, is schedule time for the team to low-key socialize without an explicit agenda, in part because by default some decisions get made in a hallway and some information travels at the speed of coffee, and we've learned we should go out of our way to be inclusive of employees who don't passively benefit from those factors. I cannot conceive of a reason we'd track screen time for employees, remote or otherwise. I can model why a company which had an adversarial relationship with employees might want to do that (to discourage shirking). We do not have an adversarial relationship with our employees, and (hopefully) have more interesting utility functions than that. I expect we'll continue publishing what we learn on this in Increment, our engineering blog, and other places. It seems unlikely to me that five years from now instituting this policy will be very contentious at well-run tech companies; that implies we, as an industry, have to get much better at this very quickly. We're always happy to share what we've learned.

sandGorgon 7y ago
@patio11 - thanks for your reply. > I cannot conceive of a reason we'd track screen time for employees, remote or otherwise. I can model why a company which had an adversarial relationship with employees might want to do that (to discourage shirking). We do not have an adversarial relationship with our employees, and (hopefully) have more interesting utility functions than that. its not about the company. See you guys are in a unique position - you have an in-office team and you have a remote team. So it is a A versus B for those people - people who are having to commute for hours to work, mandatorily sit at their computer screens . Versus others who wake up late (because no commute) and can walk about the house in their pyjamas. How do you deal with the perceived imbalance in quality of life between these two teams ? I asked about mandatory screen time from that perspective. Because there is a set of people who are working synchronously - is there no cognitive drop off between them and the remote team who may have chosen to take their dog walking at the same time when a team decides to ping on a code bug question ? this wouldnt be an issue if everyone was in office together. An all remote team is a simpler setup. I'm not at all arguing for one or the other - i do understand some people are very social and need people around them (like me) and others work best at their homes. However, after having run large orgs, I do know if you have both kinds simultaneously together - there is a massive grass-is-greener issue. The remote workers think that the in-house employees have more management "ear time" and the in-house employees grumble at the remote workers taking it easy. I have massive respect for you guys, if you have built a cultural practice that neutralises this issue. >Something Stripe Atlas does, for example, is schedule time for the team to low-key socialize without an explicit agenda How do you do this ? any learnings here? this is something i have wondered a LOT about.
- AsyncAwait 7y ago
  You could slice the "quality of life" argument the other way too i.e. the people at the office have instant access to their team's knowledge on hand.
- brechin 7y ago
  > So it is a A versus B for those people - people who are having to commute for hours to work, mandatorily sit at their computer screens . Versus others who wake up late (because no commute) and can walk about the house in their pyjamas. It's a false dichotomy. It's not commute + "mandatory" screen time vs. sleeping in and wearing PJs. When I worked in offices, I enjoyed commuting, it gave me time to listen to podcasts and transition between home and work. Working in an office with other people brought many opportunities to socialize, get pulled into impromptu conversations, take long lunches, and leave really early (to beat the commuters) if I needed to get home for some kid's after-school activity. I work remotely now, and I still have to wake up on time, get dressed (hello video chat!), and be accountable. If I step away for a measurable amount of time, then I let people know in chat. It's far easier for a remote person to engage in overwork because there's not a clear boundary for when you're "at work" vs. "at home" (unless you create one). For better or worse, I "work more" as a remote employee than I ever did in an office. The office folks who commute sometimes get to work late (traffic, train/bus issues, etc.), are pulled into random conversations and are unexpectedly unavailable just as much as any remote person. Are they contributing more by being in the office, or is the value just in their "presence", that you could literally tap them on the shoulder? IMO, It all comes down to communication and empathy. If you're experiencing a major issue because you have to wait 10 minutes for someone to finish walking their dog, then imagine that person were in the office but in the bathroom. Would you still sneer at them because they were holding you up? Very few conversations are _SO_ urgent that you absolutely need an answer immediately. Having remote coworkers allows us to engage more thoughtfully with each other, and often pushes us to write more (and more useful) documentation so that we _aren't_ expecting immediate answers from any specific human.
  - sandGorgon 7y ago
    >Having remote coworkers allows us to engage more thoughtfully with each other, and often pushes us to write more (and more useful) documentation so that we _aren't_ expecting immediate answers from any specific human. this is very interesting - is this emergent behavior or have you guys figured out some todos that makes this an effective tool ? for example, do you consciously allocate more time for documentation by developers, than you did before remote workers ? is there a particular way you do this that makes it better, etc ?
anbop 7y ago
Can you specify the “handful” of other technologies?

sandGorgon 7y ago

@patio11 - thanks for your reply. > I cannot conceive of a reason we'd track screen time for employees, remote or otherwise. I can model why a company which had an adversarial relationship with employees might want to do that (to discourage shirking). We do not have an adversarial relationship with our employees, and (hopefully) have more interesting utility functions than that. its not about the company. See you guys are in a unique position - you have an in-office team and you have a remote team. So it is a A versus B for those people - people who are having to commute for hours to work, mandatorily sit at their computer screens . Versus others who wake up late (because no commute) and can walk about the house in their pyjamas. How do you deal with the perceived imbalance in quality of life between these two teams ? I asked about mandatory screen time from that perspective. Because there is a set of people who are working synchronously - is there no cognitive drop off between them and the remote team who may have chosen to take their dog walking at the same time when a team decides to ping on a code bug question ? this wouldnt be an issue if everyone was in office together. An all remote team is a simpler setup. I'm not at all arguing for one or the other - i do understand some people are very social and need people around them (like me) and others work best at their homes. However, after having run large orgs, I do know if you have both kinds simultaneously together - there is a massive grass-is-greener issue. The remote workers think that the in-house employees have more management "ear time" and the in-house employees grumble at the remote workers taking it easy. I have massive respect for you guys, if you have built a cultural practice that neutralises this issue. >Something Stripe Atlas does, for example, is schedule time for the team to low-key socialize without an explicit agenda How do you do this ? any learnings here? this is something i have wondered a LOT about.

AsyncAwait 7y ago
You could slice the "quality of life" argument the other way too i.e. the people at the office have instant access to their team's knowledge on hand.
brechin 7y ago
> So it is a A versus B for those people - people who are having to commute for hours to work, mandatorily sit at their computer screens . Versus others who wake up late (because no commute) and can walk about the house in their pyjamas. It's a false dichotomy. It's not commute + "mandatory" screen time vs. sleeping in and wearing PJs. When I worked in offices, I enjoyed commuting, it gave me time to listen to podcasts and transition between home and work. Working in an office with other people brought many opportunities to socialize, get pulled into impromptu conversations, take long lunches, and leave really early (to beat the commuters) if I needed to get home for some kid's after-school activity. I work remotely now, and I still have to wake up on time, get dressed (hello video chat!), and be accountable. If I step away for a measurable amount of time, then I let people know in chat. It's far easier for a remote person to engage in overwork because there's not a clear boundary for when you're "at work" vs. "at home" (unless you create one). For better or worse, I "work more" as a remote employee than I ever did in an office. The office folks who commute sometimes get to work late (traffic, train/bus issues, etc.), are pulled into random conversations and are unexpectedly unavailable just as much as any remote person. Are they contributing more by being in the office, or is the value just in their "presence", that you could literally tap them on the shoulder? IMO, It all comes down to communication and empathy. If you're experiencing a major issue because you have to wait 10 minutes for someone to finish walking their dog, then imagine that person were in the office but in the bathroom. Would you still sneer at them because they were holding you up? Very few conversations are _SO_ urgent that you absolutely need an answer immediately. Having remote coworkers allows us to engage more thoughtfully with each other, and often pushes us to write more (and more useful) documentation so that we _aren't_ expecting immediate answers from any specific human.
- sandGorgon 7y ago
  >Having remote coworkers allows us to engage more thoughtfully with each other, and often pushes us to write more (and more useful) documentation so that we _aren't_ expecting immediate answers from any specific human. this is very interesting - is this emergent behavior or have you guys figured out some todos that makes this an effective tool ? for example, do you consciously allocate more time for documentation by developers, than you did before remote workers ? is there a particular way you do this that makes it better, etc ?

anbop 7y ago

Can you specify the “handful” of other technologies?