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>Sure the CEO might be too active on twitter and at times say or do things typically considered inappropriate CEO behavior. The problem is he's saying or doing

>Sure the CEO might be too active on twitter and at times say or do things typically considered inappropriate CEO behavior. The problem is he's saying or doing things that are typically considered crimes, like securities fraud. >Musk often makes bold claims and sometimes misses his projected dates. Or, to use normal language, he's a serial liar. >Part of what makes a great innovator is being able to fail sometimes. Musk will continue to make bold claims, sometimes he will fail to fulfill it, but many times he will deliver. Being willing to fail and being dishonest aren't the same thing. It's bizarre how the Musk Cult contorts itself to avoid any possibility of criticizing the Great Leader.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
kaiju0 7y ago
I'm not a cultist but certainly a fan boy. You try innovating and putting a time box on it. You need to be optimistic and a little crazy to think you know better.
toddmorey 7y ago
A projection is always a messy mix of what you know at the time combined with your own emotional temperament and wiring. I think the big debate on Elon is if he's a serial liar or a serial optimist who's often wrong.
- Gpetrium 7y ago
  At some point, people realize that they are underestimating their projections and that leads them to re-calibrate expectations with stakeholders. In this case, there is no re-calibration, which leads "non-believers" to think he is a serial liar. The answer is likely in-between, he knows he underestimates it and he is aware that if he doesn't do so, there wont be enough pressure on the employees and the money would likely dry up fast.
  - LiquidSky 7y ago
    >The answer is likely in-between, he knows he underestimates it and he is aware that if he doesn't do so, there wont be enough pressure on the employees and the money would likely dry up fast. But that's the point, isn't it? We have a word for intentionally providing falsehoods to investors to get them to keep giving you more money.
codeulike 7y ago
Mostly, it just that like any CEO, he will always paint the situation in the best light possible. "Semi is coming next year", "Model X deliveries will start in 2015" etc. The going-private-at-420 thing was reckless, and he's paid the price for that. But I don't think its accurate to brand him a serial liar. He's just doing what a CEO does.
- golfer 7y ago
  "He's just doing what a CEO does." I disagree. At a certain point, Musk turned the corner and became delusional. It's beyond simple boasting now.
natch 7y ago
I've noticed the people who call him out for being dishonest are the same people who continually misquote him, claiming he "promised" things that he said were "expected" or "likely."
- jellicle 7y ago
  I'd go the other way: HN users bend over backwards to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, which he then sets on fire. He just held an event for Tesla investors called "Autonomy Day" at which he went on at great length about how Tesla robotaxis will autonomously ferry passengers around, anywhere they want to go, as a running, regulator-approved, income-producing service, by next year. There is zero chance of this occurring and he knows it.
  - natch 7y ago
    This is a perfect example. He said it could happen, pending regulatory approval that Tesla does not control, in certain locales, possibly with human supervisory drivers at the beginning, not at, but by (a different word with a different meaning) the end of next year. He had so many qualifiers on his statements, yet you missed every single one of them and came up with a totally different statement you just projected and attributed to him. Did you even listen to the event? This is basic listening comprehension 101. Edit: ok you got the word "by" right but... everything else... wow. But it's not just you... the crazy thing is how many people do the same thing.
    - hellllllllooo 7y ago
      Regulations are not the problem here. He is clearly trying to imply something about his technology that, given the reality of self driving cars, can not happen next year even if everything else went positivity for him. The fact that he is using caveats around regulation etc. doesn't get him off the hook. He knows people will report the story as some amazing breakthrough that will help pump stock and sell cars. It's dishonest.
      - 7y ago
heartofgold 7y ago
Don't get me wrong, I'm not cultist. I agree w/ you that what is going on with the SEC seems reckless, and I don't like it. There are a number of things Musk has done that I definitely don't agree with. (However, I wouldn't call him a serial liar. He may exaggerate or stretch claims as many CEOs do.) That doesn't change the fact that he's produced a great car and seriously innovated in many areas. I am rooting for them to succeed because I think what they are doing is important and good for humanity. I am hoping Musk does the right thing, and doesn't get in further trouble with the SEC, etc. And I am hoping that the company is able to survive the tumult of the markets -- that is, the costs associated with electric cars and the supply/demand of the market. Sometimes the best technology doesn't win. It happens often. It would be a huge loss if it didn't work out.
naveen99 7y ago
securities fraud is an ill defined, broad category, probably happens more than jay walking.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

kaiju0 7y ago

I'm not a cultist but certainly a fan boy. You try innovating and putting a time box on it. You need to be optimistic and a little crazy to think you know better.

toddmorey 7y ago

A projection is always a messy mix of what you know at the time combined with your own emotional temperament and wiring. I think the big debate on Elon is if he's a serial liar or a serial optimist who's often wrong.

Gpetrium 7y ago
At some point, people realize that they are underestimating their projections and that leads them to re-calibrate expectations with stakeholders. In this case, there is no re-calibration, which leads "non-believers" to think he is a serial liar. The answer is likely in-between, he knows he underestimates it and he is aware that if he doesn't do so, there wont be enough pressure on the employees and the money would likely dry up fast.
- LiquidSky 7y ago
  >The answer is likely in-between, he knows he underestimates it and he is aware that if he doesn't do so, there wont be enough pressure on the employees and the money would likely dry up fast. But that's the point, isn't it? We have a word for intentionally providing falsehoods to investors to get them to keep giving you more money.

codeulike 7y ago

Mostly, it just that like any CEO, he will always paint the situation in the best light possible. "Semi is coming next year", "Model X deliveries will start in 2015" etc. The going-private-at-420 thing was reckless, and he's paid the price for that. But I don't think its accurate to brand him a serial liar. He's just doing what a CEO does.

golfer 7y ago
"He's just doing what a CEO does." I disagree. At a certain point, Musk turned the corner and became delusional. It's beyond simple boasting now.

natch 7y ago

I've noticed the people who call him out for being dishonest are the same people who continually misquote him, claiming he "promised" things that he said were "expected" or "likely."

jellicle 7y ago
I'd go the other way: HN users bend over backwards to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, which he then sets on fire. He just held an event for Tesla investors called "Autonomy Day" at which he went on at great length about how Tesla robotaxis will autonomously ferry passengers around, anywhere they want to go, as a running, regulator-approved, income-producing service, by next year. There is zero chance of this occurring and he knows it.
- natch 7y ago
  This is a perfect example. He said it could happen, pending regulatory approval that Tesla does not control, in certain locales, possibly with human supervisory drivers at the beginning, not at, but by (a different word with a different meaning) the end of next year. He had so many qualifiers on his statements, yet you missed every single one of them and came up with a totally different statement you just projected and attributed to him. Did you even listen to the event? This is basic listening comprehension 101. Edit: ok you got the word "by" right but... everything else... wow. But it's not just you... the crazy thing is how many people do the same thing.
  - hellllllllooo 7y ago
    Regulations are not the problem here. He is clearly trying to imply something about his technology that, given the reality of self driving cars, can not happen next year even if everything else went positivity for him. The fact that he is using caveats around regulation etc. doesn't get him off the hook. He knows people will report the story as some amazing breakthrough that will help pump stock and sell cars. It's dishonest.
    - 7y ago

heartofgold 7y ago

Don't get me wrong, I'm not cultist. I agree w/ you that what is going on with the SEC seems reckless, and I don't like it. There are a number of things Musk has done that I definitely don't agree with. (However, I wouldn't call him a serial liar. He may exaggerate or stretch claims as many CEOs do.) That doesn't change the fact that he's produced a great car and seriously innovated in many areas. I am rooting for them to succeed because I think what they are doing is important and good for humanity. I am hoping Musk does the right thing, and doesn't get in further trouble with the SEC, etc. And I am hoping that the company is able to survive the tumult of the markets -- that is, the costs associated with electric cars and the supply/demand of the market. Sometimes the best technology doesn't win. It happens often. It would be a huge loss if it didn't work out.

naveen99 7y ago

securities fraud is an ill defined, broad category, probably happens more than jay walking.