7 ms·

Guix doesn't package proprietary software.

by shpx 7y ago

nyberg 7y ago
Which is great. Means you have a clean install that's sure to be reproducible. There's always the option to keep your own channel of non-free packages if you really need them.
- tadfisher 7y ago
  Proprietary packages may still be reproducible. Presumably, you verify a hash of the inputs (e.g. upstream tarball/binary and patches), and the output should still be bit-for-bit the same on any machine given the same inputs. Not to mention that there are many open-source (as in OSI) packages that may not be distributed with Guix System because they use non-FSF-approved software licenses.
  - rekado 7y ago
    > Not to mention that there are many open-source (as in OSI) packages that may not be distributed with Guix System because they use non-FSF-approved software licenses. This is not true; at the very least "many" is wrong in the above statement. Generally, there is virtually no difference between the OSI set of approved licenses and the FSF set. Can you list examples of the many packages that would be considered "open source" (according to the OSI definition) but not also Free Software as per the FSF definition?
serhart 7y ago
The official Guix channels do not package proprietary software. However, nothing is stopping someone from doing it.
- atemerev 7y ago
  Tried to install nvidia drivers (the only piece of proprietary software I needed) — no luck. Hope that with 1.0, somebody will find a way.
  - serhart 7y ago
    It's definitely not trivial to do. I have the Guix system installed on my mid 2013 MBP. I installed the mainline Linux kernel and drivers along with the proprietary Broadcom wireless module. Everything seems to be running fine.
    - aeneasmackenzie 7y ago
      Did create a package for it? Is it available?
  - aetimmes 7y ago
    This is going to be a deal breaker for a lot of HPC folks, so it's surprising to me that there isn't an "unofficial official" way to get non-free Nvidia drivers given Guix's aims at reproducible builds for HPC.
    - serhart 7y ago
      I don't think it has Nvidia drivers, but there is work being done for Guix and HPC. https://guix-hpc.bordeaux.inria.fr/ https://guix-hpc.bordeaux.inria.fr/
    - pault 7y ago
      Sounds like you can use just the package manager, so I guess there's nothing stopping you from installing just the proprietary blobs with your system package manager and build everything else with guix?
  - chupasaurus 7y ago
    The only distro I know of which packages nvidia proprietary driver not as an original blob and a bunch of scripts is Debian. To say it's a mess is understatement (list of dependencies by metapackage[0], which doesn't include all driver parts either). [0]https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-driver https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-driver edit: wording
    - 7y ago
openbasic 7y ago
That's a feature. A good one.
- Filligree 7y ago
  I need to run CuDNN. I'd happily take a conceptually-pure operating system in every other respect, but without that package I can't use it for anything. Perhaps locking me out is a feature, but it isn't a very welcoming one.
  - rekado 7y ago
    Guix doesn't prevent you from using proprietary software. It gives you all the tools you need to use package modules published by other people, or to package them yourself. This is free software after all: you have the freedom to use Guix for any purpose including the installation of non-free software. I'm not just saying this to make a nitpicking point: Guix makes it easier to, say, build a custom kernel using the same reliable and hackable mechanisms Guix uses for Linux libre. It's just that the Guix project itself won't recommend projects that extend Guix with package definitions for non-free software, nor will it include said packages by default.
  - craigsmansion 7y ago
    Guix is still a general purpose operating system running on a general purpose computer. You should be able to run any software on it that is GNU or Linux compatible. If you don't want to go through the pain of installing it outside of a package manager, that's fine, but that's not "locking you out", it's putting the blame where it belongs: the proprietary ISV.

Guix doesn't package proprietary software.

by shpx 7y ago

Guix doesn't package proprietary software.

Which is great. Means you have a clean install that's sure to be reproducible. There's always the option to keep your own channel of non-free packages if you really need them.

tadfisher 7y ago
Proprietary packages may still be reproducible. Presumably, you verify a hash of the inputs (e.g. upstream tarball/binary and patches), and the output should still be bit-for-bit the same on any machine given the same inputs. Not to mention that there are many open-source (as in OSI) packages that may not be distributed with Guix System because they use non-FSF-approved software licenses.
- rekado 7y ago
  > Not to mention that there are many open-source (as in OSI) packages that may not be distributed with Guix System because they use non-FSF-approved software licenses. This is not true; at the very least "many" is wrong in the above statement. Generally, there is virtually no difference between the OSI set of approved licenses and the FSF set. Can you list examples of the many packages that would be considered "open source" (according to the OSI definition) but not also Free Software as per the FSF definition?

serhart 7y ago

The official Guix channels do not package proprietary software. However, nothing is stopping someone from doing it.

atemerev 7y ago
Tried to install nvidia drivers (the only piece of proprietary software I needed) — no luck. Hope that with 1.0, somebody will find a way.
- serhart 7y ago
  It's definitely not trivial to do. I have the Guix system installed on my mid 2013 MBP. I installed the mainline Linux kernel and drivers along with the proprietary Broadcom wireless module. Everything seems to be running fine.
  - aeneasmackenzie 7y ago
    Did create a package for it? Is it available?
- aetimmes 7y ago
  This is going to be a deal breaker for a lot of HPC folks, so it's surprising to me that there isn't an "unofficial official" way to get non-free Nvidia drivers given Guix's aims at reproducible builds for HPC.
  - serhart 7y ago
    I don't think it has Nvidia drivers, but there is work being done for Guix and HPC. https://guix-hpc.bordeaux.inria.fr/ https://guix-hpc.bordeaux.inria.fr/
  - pault 7y ago
    Sounds like you can use just the package manager, so I guess there's nothing stopping you from installing just the proprietary blobs with your system package manager and build everything else with guix?
- chupasaurus 7y ago
  The only distro I know of which packages nvidia proprietary driver not as an original blob and a bunch of scripts is Debian. To say it's a mess is understatement (list of dependencies by metapackage[0], which doesn't include all driver parts either). [0]https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-driver https://packages.debian.org/sid/nvidia-driver edit: wording
  - 7y ago

openbasic 7y ago

That's a feature. A good one.

Filligree 7y ago
I need to run CuDNN. I'd happily take a conceptually-pure operating system in every other respect, but without that package I can't use it for anything. Perhaps locking me out is a feature, but it isn't a very welcoming one.
- rekado 7y ago
  Guix doesn't prevent you from using proprietary software. It gives you all the tools you need to use package modules published by other people, or to package them yourself. This is free software after all: you have the freedom to use Guix for any purpose including the installation of non-free software. I'm not just saying this to make a nitpicking point: Guix makes it easier to, say, build a custom kernel using the same reliable and hackable mechanisms Guix uses for Linux libre. It's just that the Guix project itself won't recommend projects that extend Guix with package definitions for non-free software, nor will it include said packages by default.
- craigsmansion 7y ago
  Guix is still a general purpose operating system running on a general purpose computer. You should be able to run any software on it that is GNU or Linux compatible. If you don't want to go through the pain of installing it outside of a package manager, that's fine, but that's not "locking you out", it's putting the blame where it belongs: the proprietary ISV.