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Are you kidding? Netherlands is the EU’s most famous tax evasion destination with overseas tax havens included, Sweden might have low income inequalities but h

Are you kidding? Netherlands is the EU’s most famous tax evasion destination with overseas tax havens included, Sweden might have low income inequalities but has massive wealth inequalities - see their aristocratic and oligarch families, or the world famous furniture „charity” (coincidentally, its byzantine ownership scheme anchors in Netherlands).

mettamage 7y ago
I wanted to say that you're wrong, but the more I think about The Netherlands, the truth seems to be a bit in your favor. I mean, I know that millionaires in The Netherlands pay taxes, but in most cases that's property/capital tax, which is about 1% (simplifying a lot here). However, that's by far not the full story. People with 1 million are also millionaires and it depends to what extent they evade tax. Let me outline some example groups and how much tax I think they pay. I'm a Dutchie myself, so I feel my guestimates are okay. Millionaire employees: You do have HFT companies where people make between 100,000 euro's to 250,000 euro's but pay 50% in employee tax on average. Also, top positions here are taxed around the same rate. International millionaire employees: The thing is: not all top managers who are also millionaires are domestic. There are quite some Dutchies who are top managers but have been an expat, which means they were paying the employee tax of another country, which is most likely cheaper. These Dutchies sometimes return to The Netherlands after decades of working abroad. I highly doubt though that tax evasion was their biggest motivator, but paying 20% less (number out of thin air, but NL is 50% so the world is 30%) employee tax year over year definitely adds up as these type of people also invest their money. Entrepreneurs and freelancers: A business in The Netherlands that makes 250,000 euro's in profit per year, probably has some tax tricks but my guestimate is that they still pay between 15 to 30% taxes. It really depends on how focused they are on it and how structured they are. I met this one Dutch person who's a freelancer, he makes about a 120,000 euro's per year. I'm pretty sure he pays normal income tax (and gets some deductions because he's a freelancer). Other freelancers that I know are much more focused on it and tend to be on the 15%, maybe even 10% side. Criminals: Criminals need to launder money, they pay their taxes, in a more karmic than bureaucratic way. This is also because most criminals that are millionaires don't seem super duper smart (source: the Dutch news regarding assinations of 15 years ago), but they are quite clever since non-clever criminals get caught, not shot. Inherited wealth: See my first statement, these people are most likely in real estate. There's even an episode about it by Zondag met Lubach [1]. These people evade tax. That's all I know about it. My point is: it's a bit more nuanced than every millionaire not paying tax. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3fywTiEJgM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3fywTiEJgM -- Dutch spoken but has English subtitles (non-auto translated)
- pjc50 7y ago
  A million is not a lot these days. But the association of the Netherlands with tax avoidance probably comes from the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich
- expertentipp 7y ago
  I know that if I come over as an individual on employment contract I will pay among the highest taxes and contributions in EU, although there seems to be some tax relief for newly arrived foreigners. The point is rather about large global business entities with sophisticated ownership, leadership, and shareholder structure - somehow they oftentimes are registered as Dutch BV, or in Luxembourg/Ireland. This way or another it’s always some kind of Dutch-Irish sandwich with Luxembourgian sauce.

mettamage 7y ago

I wanted to say that you're wrong, but the more I think about The Netherlands, the truth seems to be a bit in your favor. I mean, I know that millionaires in The Netherlands pay taxes, but in most cases that's property/capital tax, which is about 1% (simplifying a lot here). However, that's by far not the full story. People with 1 million are also millionaires and it depends to what extent they evade tax. Let me outline some example groups and how much tax I think they pay. I'm a Dutchie myself, so I feel my guestimates are okay. Millionaire employees: You do have HFT companies where people make between 100,000 euro's to 250,000 euro's but pay 50% in employee tax on average. Also, top positions here are taxed around the same rate. International millionaire employees: The thing is: not all top managers who are also millionaires are domestic. There are quite some Dutchies who are top managers but have been an expat, which means they were paying the employee tax of another country, which is most likely cheaper. These Dutchies sometimes return to The Netherlands after decades of working abroad. I highly doubt though that tax evasion was their biggest motivator, but paying 20% less (number out of thin air, but NL is 50% so the world is 30%) employee tax year over year definitely adds up as these type of people also invest their money. Entrepreneurs and freelancers: A business in The Netherlands that makes 250,000 euro's in profit per year, probably has some tax tricks but my guestimate is that they still pay between 15 to 30% taxes. It really depends on how focused they are on it and how structured they are. I met this one Dutch person who's a freelancer, he makes about a 120,000 euro's per year. I'm pretty sure he pays normal income tax (and gets some deductions because he's a freelancer). Other freelancers that I know are much more focused on it and tend to be on the 15%, maybe even 10% side. Criminals: Criminals need to launder money, they pay their taxes, in a more karmic than bureaucratic way. This is also because most criminals that are millionaires don't seem super duper smart (source: the Dutch news regarding assinations of 15 years ago), but they are quite clever since non-clever criminals get caught, not shot. Inherited wealth: See my first statement, these people are most likely in real estate. There's even an episode about it by Zondag met Lubach [1]. These people evade tax. That's all I know about it. My point is: it's a bit more nuanced than every millionaire not paying tax. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3fywTiEJgM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3fywTiEJgM -- Dutch spoken but has English subtitles (non-auto translated)

pjc50 7y ago
A million is not a lot these days. But the association of the Netherlands with tax avoidance probably comes from the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich
expertentipp 7y ago
I know that if I come over as an individual on employment contract I will pay among the highest taxes and contributions in EU, although there seems to be some tax relief for newly arrived foreigners. The point is rather about large global business entities with sophisticated ownership, leadership, and shareholder structure - somehow they oftentimes are registered as Dutch BV, or in Luxembourg/Ireland. This way or another it’s always some kind of Dutch-Irish sandwich with Luxembourgian sauce.