7 ms·

Elite reveal anxiety over ‘class war’ and ‘revolution’

20 points by chewz 8y ago

brainfeed0 8y ago
> The younger generation that support socialism are “people who don’t know history”, he said. Gee, I wonder if he remembers Oklahoma was a bastion of American socialism until the red scare (and Trump's mentor, the insane, "sue everyone" fascist Roy Cohn) excommunicated and banished anyone who wasn't for the nouveau "libertarianism" anarcho-capitalism (socialism/regulatory capture for the rich, austerity/neglect for everyone else).
- whenchamenia 8y ago
  Your comment is pure political flamebait.
  - pizzazzaro 8y ago
    Distilled from history, no less. It's perfect, isnt it?
chewz 8y ago
> “Throughout centuries what we’ve seen when the masses think the elites have too much, one of two things happens: legislation to redistribute the wealth . . . or revolution to distribute property. Those are the two choices historically and debating it back and forth, saying ‘no, it’s capitalism; no, it’s socialism’ is what creates revolution.”
- renox 8y ago
  I couldn't access the article but the quote you give is weird: in the ages of kings, the masses thought that the elites have too much for centuries before the revolution happened.
  - chewz 8y ago
    It is a quote from Guggenheim Partners’ Alan Schwartz. The so called peasant revolts were quite regular occurrence in Europe. But it isn't the first article in FT about the wealthy realizing that revolution is coming for them. https://www.truthdig.com/articles/cartier-boss-says-thought-of-the-poor-rising-up-keeps-him-awake-at-night/ https://www.truthdig.com/articles/cartier-boss-says-thought-...
- kybernetikos 8y ago
  It's striking that the rather obvious solution of the elites self-regulating a little as a way to avoid the dramatic problems they worry about doesn't seem to have been discussed.
  - SigmundA 8y ago
    Probably because self regulation doesn't work and never has, if it did there would be no need for laws or government we would all just self regulate and get along and help each other without a central authority with a monopoly on violence. Another way to look at it, laws and democratic government are a form of self regulation similar to buying an alarm clock rather than just waking up on time through self control. Granted you may not have a choice in which alarm clock to buy or when the alarm is set because it is agreed upon over time through mass consensus.
    - kybernetikos 8y ago
      I'm not advocating it as a solution for society, I'm just surprised that people would buy bunkers to help them survive the violence that they think inequality will cause, and not also think about taking steps to reduce the inequality by raising the living standards of those at the bottom. Both courses of action can be justified even at a self-interested level. There are lots of situations where groups have voluntarily agreed to abide by a code of practice in order to avoid having one forced on them by democratic government (or a mob). The concept is common enough that the Canadian government describe it here [1] It absolutely can work, as long as the voluntary code goes far enough and is adhered to by enough of the relevant industry. [1] https://ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca00963.html https://ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca00963.html
      - RugnirViking 8y ago
        Presumably its a sort of tragedy of the commons type thing. Any one rich person could act, but (reasonably) doesn't think they could solve everything by themselves. They could try to persuade their rich friends, but unless enough people do it they might feel that their efforts and their precious, precious hoard would have been wasted
HNKingpin 8y ago
Can you repost the article somewhere else? I can't access it.
- chewz 8y ago
  Try http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F0f9cf638-6c28-11e9-80c7-60ee53e6681d http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fconte... or in the original url change www. to amp. and scroll down Viva la revolucion! ;-)
  - pmx 8y ago
    This worked for me :)
  - brainfeed0 8y ago
    No workey
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  http://archive.is/9TVCZ http://archive.is/9TVCZ
  - brainfeed0 8y ago
    Workey! TY kind individual.

20 points by chewz 8y ago

> The younger generation that support socialism are “people who don’t know history”, he said. Gee, I wonder if he remembers Oklahoma was a bastion of American socialism until the red scare (and Trump's mentor, the insane, "sue everyone" fascist Roy Cohn) excommunicated and banished anyone who wasn't for the nouveau "libertarianism" anarcho-capitalism (socialism/regulatory capture for the rich, austerity/neglect for everyone else).

whenchamenia 8y ago
Your comment is pure political flamebait.
- pizzazzaro 8y ago
  Distilled from history, no less. It's perfect, isnt it?

chewz 8y ago

> “Throughout centuries what we’ve seen when the masses think the elites have too much, one of two things happens: legislation to redistribute the wealth . . . or revolution to distribute property. Those are the two choices historically and debating it back and forth, saying ‘no, it’s capitalism; no, it’s socialism’ is what creates revolution.”

renox 8y ago
I couldn't access the article but the quote you give is weird: in the ages of kings, the masses thought that the elites have too much for centuries before the revolution happened.
- chewz 8y ago
  It is a quote from Guggenheim Partners’ Alan Schwartz. The so called peasant revolts were quite regular occurrence in Europe. But it isn't the first article in FT about the wealthy realizing that revolution is coming for them. https://www.truthdig.com/articles/cartier-boss-says-thought-of-the-poor-rising-up-keeps-him-awake-at-night/ https://www.truthdig.com/articles/cartier-boss-says-thought-...
kybernetikos 8y ago
It's striking that the rather obvious solution of the elites self-regulating a little as a way to avoid the dramatic problems they worry about doesn't seem to have been discussed.
- SigmundA 8y ago
  Probably because self regulation doesn't work and never has, if it did there would be no need for laws or government we would all just self regulate and get along and help each other without a central authority with a monopoly on violence. Another way to look at it, laws and democratic government are a form of self regulation similar to buying an alarm clock rather than just waking up on time through self control. Granted you may not have a choice in which alarm clock to buy or when the alarm is set because it is agreed upon over time through mass consensus.
  - kybernetikos 8y ago
    I'm not advocating it as a solution for society, I'm just surprised that people would buy bunkers to help them survive the violence that they think inequality will cause, and not also think about taking steps to reduce the inequality by raising the living standards of those at the bottom. Both courses of action can be justified even at a self-interested level. There are lots of situations where groups have voluntarily agreed to abide by a code of practice in order to avoid having one forced on them by democratic government (or a mob). The concept is common enough that the Canadian government describe it here [1] It absolutely can work, as long as the voluntary code goes far enough and is adhered to by enough of the relevant industry. [1] https://ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca00963.html https://ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca00963.html
    - RugnirViking 8y ago
      Presumably its a sort of tragedy of the commons type thing. Any one rich person could act, but (reasonably) doesn't think they could solve everything by themselves. They could try to persuade their rich friends, but unless enough people do it they might feel that their efforts and their precious, precious hoard would have been wasted

HNKingpin 8y ago

Can you repost the article somewhere else? I can't access it.

chewz 8y ago
Try http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F0f9cf638-6c28-11e9-80c7-60ee53e6681d http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fconte... or in the original url change www. to amp. and scroll down Viva la revolucion! ;-)
- pmx 8y ago
  This worked for me :)
- brainfeed0 8y ago
  No workey
dredmorbius 8y ago
http://archive.is/9TVCZ http://archive.is/9TVCZ
- brainfeed0 8y ago
  Workey! TY kind individual.