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We are special in that we have evolved to be utterly dominant, which gives us privileges and responsibilities other animals don’t share. Also, other animals ki

We are special in that we have evolved to be utterly dominant, which gives us privileges and responsibilities other animals don’t share. Also, other animals kill out of necessity. We don’t need to kill to survive at all so why are we justified to do so?

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
I don't see what dominance has to do with privileges and responsibilities. Besides, humans "dominate" only in a very narrow sense. Most of the biomass on the planet is not human. There are many species of insects and microorganisms that are much more "dominant" than we are. Other animals don't necessarily kill out of necessity. For example, many animals perform surplus killing [1] - I personally know of two dogs who, together, entered a coop and killed about 40 chiken without eating any. In the same farm, dogs have often killed chickens and goats, which they just eviscerate without eating them. Then of course there's the killing of young animals by older males- like male cats sometimes kill kittens, etc. Besides, why is "need" to kill the only justification to kill? For example, if it's very difficult to survive without killing an animal, say because you're putting your health and that of your children at risk with a diet poor in animal protein- then why are you not justified to do it? ______________ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing
- cageface 8y ago
  First of all it’s not at all difficult to get plenty of protein from plant sources. You are most likely putting your children at much greater risk by feeding them factory farmed meat than not feeding them meat at all. I guess for me it just comes from a desire to respect and value all life. It’s in our power to create a world full of unnecessary death and cruelty or without it. Why would we choose the former? I found I became a much kinder and more empathic person when I stopped eating animals. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
    >> I guess for me it just comes from a desire to respect and value all life. All life? I think you mean all animal life.
    - cageface 8y ago
      No all life. When we treat animal life as worthless we also come to value human life less. It’s a connection that’s hard to see while you’re still eating meat IMO. At least in more “primitive” societies they would often acknowledge that the animal had given its life and thank it and treat the act of eating an animal with some solemnity. We instead do our best to forget that what we are eating was ever alive.
      - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
        What I mean is that plants are also alive. Do you not respect and value plant life?
        cageface 8y ago
        It takes as much as 10 kilos of plants to produce a kilo of meat, so if you respect plant life the best thing you can do is stop wasting it feeding it to animals you intend to eat. And yeah I do notice and appreciate plants a lot more since I became vegan. This talk does a good job of addressing the common objections to veganism, including all those you have raised: https://youtu.be/byTxzzztRBU https://youtu.be/byTxzzztRBU
        YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
        >> It takes as much as 10 kilos of plants to produce a kilo of meat, so if you respect plant life the best thing you can do is stop wasting it feeding it to animals you intend to eat. I do value and respect all life, but I don't think that means I shouldn't eat it. Your comment was the one that made that point. Rather than watching a video I can't converse with I would prefer it if you explained to me yourself why it's OK to eat one kind of life one respects and values, i.e. plants, but not another, i.e. animals. I mean, I would welcome an explanation.

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago

I don't see what dominance has to do with privileges and responsibilities. Besides, humans "dominate" only in a very narrow sense. Most of the biomass on the planet is not human. There are many species of insects and microorganisms that are much more "dominant" than we are. Other animals don't necessarily kill out of necessity. For example, many animals perform surplus killing [1] - I personally know of two dogs who, together, entered a coop and killed about 40 chiken without eating any. In the same farm, dogs have often killed chickens and goats, which they just eviscerate without eating them. Then of course there's the killing of young animals by older males- like male cats sometimes kill kittens, etc. Besides, why is "need" to kill the only justification to kill? For example, if it's very difficult to survive without killing an animal, say because you're putting your health and that of your children at risk with a diet poor in animal protein- then why are you not justified to do it? ______________ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing

cageface 8y ago
First of all it’s not at all difficult to get plenty of protein from plant sources. You are most likely putting your children at much greater risk by feeding them factory farmed meat than not feeding them meat at all. I guess for me it just comes from a desire to respect and value all life. It’s in our power to create a world full of unnecessary death and cruelty or without it. Why would we choose the former? I found I became a much kinder and more empathic person when I stopped eating animals. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.
- YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
  >> I guess for me it just comes from a desire to respect and value all life. All life? I think you mean all animal life.
  - cageface 8y ago
    No all life. When we treat animal life as worthless we also come to value human life less. It’s a connection that’s hard to see while you’re still eating meat IMO. At least in more “primitive” societies they would often acknowledge that the animal had given its life and thank it and treat the act of eating an animal with some solemnity. We instead do our best to forget that what we are eating was ever alive.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
      What I mean is that plants are also alive. Do you not respect and value plant life?
      - cageface 8y ago
        It takes as much as 10 kilos of plants to produce a kilo of meat, so if you respect plant life the best thing you can do is stop wasting it feeding it to animals you intend to eat. And yeah I do notice and appreciate plants a lot more since I became vegan. This talk does a good job of addressing the common objections to veganism, including all those you have raised: https://youtu.be/byTxzzztRBU https://youtu.be/byTxzzztRBU
        YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
        >> It takes as much as 10 kilos of plants to produce a kilo of meat, so if you respect plant life the best thing you can do is stop wasting it feeding it to animals you intend to eat. I do value and respect all life, but I don't think that means I shouldn't eat it. Your comment was the one that made that point. Rather than watching a video I can't converse with I would prefer it if you explained to me yourself why it's OK to eat one kind of life one respects and values, i.e. plants, but not another, i.e. animals. I mean, I would welcome an explanation.