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It might not be your intent but your comment does sound a tad dismissive. Alibaba, Baidu and DangDang are, amongst others, considerably successful businesses. P

by micrypt 16y ago

It might not be your intent but your comment does sound a tad dismissive. Alibaba, Baidu and DangDang are, amongst others, considerably successful businesses. Perhaps their similarities to Western contemporaries are partly due to the fact that we are all human in the end and happen to have similar needs. However, they are remarkably innovative in their own contexts.

jasonjei 16y ago
The culture in China doesn't entirely foster it. I agree China is entirely capable of producing excellent software. But that doesn't change the culture. I've breathed it when I lived in China for several months. You'll notice that college students in China are always in groups, and there is a hive mentality to decision making. The self isn't as important as the group. Espirit de corps. Jack Ma of Alibaba spent considerable time in the US, and enlisted US friends to develop Alibaba. Many Asians that have been through Western education become extremely creative. Not that I'm saying the Western/US education system is better (it has its problems, on the entirely opposite scale), but Western university culture helps bring people to their potential, while the university culture in Asian countries is a continuation of high school (hard to get into, extremely easy to get out). I work regularly with Chinese companies, and if you were to go to an equipment manufacturer in China, you'd notice they practically use the same designs, block diagrams, software for the same product. It's all exactly the same. You might also recall that the mandatory filtering software used by the Chinese government was plagiarized. Or the Cisco firmware. IP has serious problems in China. Japanese cellphones, for instance, were way ahead of the curve on the merits of specs. But that isn't true anymore. Japan, like other Asian countries, have a difficult time with creativity not because they're less talented, but because the culture doesn't help bring ideas to fruition.
- tygorius 16y ago
  It seems to me that your assertion that Asian countries "have a difficult time with creativity" is unproven. Yes, the culture encourages conformance. But it not clear from anything you've cited thus far that either the Chinese government or a significant number of the Chinese people think their supposed lack of creative thinking is somehow holding them back. The government's recent ability to completely flout the spirit of the WTO rules while obeying them in the letter strikes me as fairly creative, for example. (I'm thinking of the defacto emabargo of rare earth metal exports to Japan, wherein "independently" several dozen exporters stopped shipping on the same day.) To cite the field of software and content for examples is a mistake, I believe, because it's based on a presupposition that IP can't, won't, or shouldn't approach zero cost. If I were a Chinese administrator, I wouldn't care much if the blogging software my people were using was a clone of something from the West nearly as much as I'd be concerned that their creativity of expression was kept within the bounds of the Greater Good.

by micrypt 16y ago

jasonjei 16y ago

The culture in China doesn't entirely foster it. I agree China is entirely capable of producing excellent software. But that doesn't change the culture. I've breathed it when I lived in China for several months. You'll notice that college students in China are always in groups, and there is a hive mentality to decision making. The self isn't as important as the group. Espirit de corps. Jack Ma of Alibaba spent considerable time in the US, and enlisted US friends to develop Alibaba. Many Asians that have been through Western education become extremely creative. Not that I'm saying the Western/US education system is better (it has its problems, on the entirely opposite scale), but Western university culture helps bring people to their potential, while the university culture in Asian countries is a continuation of high school (hard to get into, extremely easy to get out). I work regularly with Chinese companies, and if you were to go to an equipment manufacturer in China, you'd notice they practically use the same designs, block diagrams, software for the same product. It's all exactly the same. You might also recall that the mandatory filtering software used by the Chinese government was plagiarized. Or the Cisco firmware. IP has serious problems in China. Japanese cellphones, for instance, were way ahead of the curve on the merits of specs. But that isn't true anymore. Japan, like other Asian countries, have a difficult time with creativity not because they're less talented, but because the culture doesn't help bring ideas to fruition.

tygorius 16y ago
It seems to me that your assertion that Asian countries "have a difficult time with creativity" is unproven. Yes, the culture encourages conformance. But it not clear from anything you've cited thus far that either the Chinese government or a significant number of the Chinese people think their supposed lack of creative thinking is somehow holding them back. The government's recent ability to completely flout the spirit of the WTO rules while obeying them in the letter strikes me as fairly creative, for example. (I'm thinking of the defacto emabargo of rare earth metal exports to Japan, wherein "independently" several dozen exporters stopped shipping on the same day.) To cite the field of software and content for examples is a mistake, I believe, because it's based on a presupposition that IP can't, won't, or shouldn't approach zero cost. If I were a Chinese administrator, I wouldn't care much if the blogging software my people were using was a clone of something from the West nearly as much as I'd be concerned that their creativity of expression was kept within the bounds of the Greater Good.