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They are serious tools for professionals and you have to learn how to use them. I don't know why people think they should be able to use things without training

They are serious tools for professionals and you have to learn how to use them. I don't know why people think they should be able to use things without training these days. Once you know what you're doing, the toolchains are solid as a rock.

grandinj 7y ago
Just a teensy bit condescending there? You mean like - gdb randomly sucking up 16G of ram - gdb crashing with internal errors - clang/gcc miscompiling my code - perf refusing to record stacks - perf refusing to symbolise stacks because it's having a disagreement with the compiler people about debug data formats. - locking up X11 and having to SSH in to fix it (because, you know, X11 doesn't have per-application input queues, unlike WindowsNT3.5) - and a ton of other minor little annoyances with hardware support that Mac/Windows ironed out years ago I like Linux a lot, the tools are great, but let us not pretend they are all that, they still have a way to go.
- zelon88 7y ago
  You say "ironed out" but what I think you mean is "layered on top of each other and ironed together; impossibly thin." I feel like developing on Windows is more difficult because of all it's abstraction layers. WMI, DCOM, the registry, overlapping snap-in functionality, ect. To me programming on Windows feels like you've got to peel apart all these layers to understand what's between them. Linux is one layer and you can already see right through it. > - and a ton of other minor little annoyances with hardware support that Mac/Windows ironed out years ago Uhh, did you just say that Mac has ironed out harware support? For what? They only support their own hardware. The hackintosh community will be the first ones to tell you that Apple purposely doesn't iron out hardware... ANYTHING unless it already says "Apple" on it.
- davvolun 7y ago
  For the first half of that, I was pretty sure you were still talking about Visual Studio. That's...pretty much what I'm looking at with VS on my computer right now.

grandinj 7y ago

Just a teensy bit condescending there? You mean like - gdb randomly sucking up 16G of ram - gdb crashing with internal errors - clang/gcc miscompiling my code - perf refusing to record stacks - perf refusing to symbolise stacks because it's having a disagreement with the compiler people about debug data formats. - locking up X11 and having to SSH in to fix it (because, you know, X11 doesn't have per-application input queues, unlike WindowsNT3.5) - and a ton of other minor little annoyances with hardware support that Mac/Windows ironed out years ago I like Linux a lot, the tools are great, but let us not pretend they are all that, they still have a way to go.

zelon88 7y ago
You say "ironed out" but what I think you mean is "layered on top of each other and ironed together; impossibly thin." I feel like developing on Windows is more difficult because of all it's abstraction layers. WMI, DCOM, the registry, overlapping snap-in functionality, ect. To me programming on Windows feels like you've got to peel apart all these layers to understand what's between them. Linux is one layer and you can already see right through it. > - and a ton of other minor little annoyances with hardware support that Mac/Windows ironed out years ago Uhh, did you just say that Mac has ironed out harware support? For what? They only support their own hardware. The hackintosh community will be the first ones to tell you that Apple purposely doesn't iron out hardware... ANYTHING unless it already says "Apple" on it.
davvolun 7y ago
For the first half of that, I was pretty sure you were still talking about Visual Studio. That's...pretty much what I'm looking at with VS on my computer right now.