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I know what you describe is common, but the purpose of the daily really isn’t to boast about your heroic achievements of yesterday, or give a status report to m

I know what you describe is common, but the purpose of the daily really isn’t to boast about your heroic achievements of yesterday, or give a status report to management. That part should be cut out entirely much of the time. A better idea is to plan the current day, identify where someone could use help, where two people need to coordinate more closely or on what issues further discussion is needed and with whom. If there’s nothing to discuss because everyone is already on the same page, that’s great, cut the meeting short and start working. Also, depending on your setup, people who can never usefully work together on anything probably shouldn’t be part of the same daily standup. I’ve seen several cases where this meeting was way, way too large.

yebyen 7y ago
That's exactly what it's for. To put a finer point on it, a daily stand-up meeting should be no more than 15 minutes long, and about three specific things. Each person should talk about exactly these three things (or less, if you can say that one or more of them are not known or relevant yet): 1. What am I working on now 2. What is in the way of getting this thing done 3. What will I work on next The value of the stand-up comes from the replies you can get from your other team members when they hear your report... (1) "I know something that you need to know in order to get that done well, or done at all" ... (2) "I can help with that thing you've identified which is in your way" ... (3) "Here's something you will need, let's get it ready for you..." or alternatively "That's not going to go well because XYZ isn't ready yet, so maybe plan to work on this other thing instead" If these things aren't coming out of your daily stand-up meetings on a regular basis, then something about how your group is doing them is wrong. Talking about what you did yesterday, that is already over and done with (as you say), provides absolutely no value ... unless you know from a previous stand-up that someone was actually waiting for that thing. But if you really knew that already, you should tell that person directly, as there's really no reason to save it for the stand-up unless there just wasn't another opportunity.
- Aloisius 7y ago
  15 minutes? Even 5 minutes is long. With an average 7 person scrum team, they should take no more than 3 minutes. I disagree talking about yesterday provides no value. Talking about yesterday, in my experience, dramatically improves people's ability to accurately identify and prioritize what they have to do today. Plus, it provides a forum to communicate unexpected interruptions that may need to be dealt with by the scrum master.
  - yebyen 7y ago
    5 minutes for 7 people? Something is wrong with your math, you might get the meeting over with in 5 minutes on the best day, but it won't have been very valuable or informative. How exactly are you supposed to make three whole statements per person and also leave room for helpful reactions and questions... in an average of 14 seconds per person-statement and response? That might be how long it takes if nobody has anything to say in response, but it won't be the average, more like the floor. Either we're not talking about the same thing, or your dev team are moonlighting as auctioneers.
    - Aloisius 7y ago
      Response? The only time there is a response is if there is a blocker and even then, it is just a comment to speak after the meeting with the people affected. 14 seconds is a long time to answer them if you are prepared and don't dilly dally around. For goodness sake, the majority of time, someone is working on the same feature today as yesterday and has no blockers. It takes seconds to communicate. It isn't like everyone isn't aware of all the work to be done and it isn't an appropriate forum in a cross-functional team to go into details. People do that after with the people interested. The only time I've found people run over 5 minutes is if the person running the meeting is lax or if meeting doesn't start on time. I guess sometimes another meeting happening after might get rolled in, but then it isn't a standup.
      - yebyen 7y ago
        I guess we're pretty lax about it and not really following the rules. Almost always people do not respect the rules of the stand-up, and it becomes the status report meeting. If you're doing it correctly, it should definitely not run over 15 minutes. Other groups that I've observed are having 30-minute standup meetings with 15 or 20 people and they're dominated by two or three people with lots to say. That's not what it's for. I like your approach better than ours.

yebyen 7y ago

That's exactly what it's for. To put a finer point on it, a daily stand-up meeting should be no more than 15 minutes long, and about three specific things. Each person should talk about exactly these three things (or less, if you can say that one or more of them are not known or relevant yet): 1. What am I working on now 2. What is in the way of getting this thing done 3. What will I work on next The value of the stand-up comes from the replies you can get from your other team members when they hear your report... (1) "I know something that you need to know in order to get that done well, or done at all" ... (2) "I can help with that thing you've identified which is in your way" ... (3) "Here's something you will need, let's get it ready for you..." or alternatively "That's not going to go well because XYZ isn't ready yet, so maybe plan to work on this other thing instead" If these things aren't coming out of your daily stand-up meetings on a regular basis, then something about how your group is doing them is wrong. Talking about what you did yesterday, that is already over and done with (as you say), provides absolutely no value ... unless you know from a previous stand-up that someone was actually waiting for that thing. But if you really knew that already, you should tell that person directly, as there's really no reason to save it for the stand-up unless there just wasn't another opportunity.

Aloisius 7y ago
15 minutes? Even 5 minutes is long. With an average 7 person scrum team, they should take no more than 3 minutes. I disagree talking about yesterday provides no value. Talking about yesterday, in my experience, dramatically improves people's ability to accurately identify and prioritize what they have to do today. Plus, it provides a forum to communicate unexpected interruptions that may need to be dealt with by the scrum master.
- yebyen 7y ago
  5 minutes for 7 people? Something is wrong with your math, you might get the meeting over with in 5 minutes on the best day, but it won't have been very valuable or informative. How exactly are you supposed to make three whole statements per person and also leave room for helpful reactions and questions... in an average of 14 seconds per person-statement and response? That might be how long it takes if nobody has anything to say in response, but it won't be the average, more like the floor. Either we're not talking about the same thing, or your dev team are moonlighting as auctioneers.
  - Aloisius 7y ago
    Response? The only time there is a response is if there is a blocker and even then, it is just a comment to speak after the meeting with the people affected. 14 seconds is a long time to answer them if you are prepared and don't dilly dally around. For goodness sake, the majority of time, someone is working on the same feature today as yesterday and has no blockers. It takes seconds to communicate. It isn't like everyone isn't aware of all the work to be done and it isn't an appropriate forum in a cross-functional team to go into details. People do that after with the people interested. The only time I've found people run over 5 minutes is if the person running the meeting is lax or if meeting doesn't start on time. I guess sometimes another meeting happening after might get rolled in, but then it isn't a standup.
    - yebyen 7y ago
      I guess we're pretty lax about it and not really following the rules. Almost always people do not respect the rules of the stand-up, and it becomes the status report meeting. If you're doing it correctly, it should definitely not run over 15 minutes. Other groups that I've observed are having 30-minute standup meetings with 15 or 20 people and they're dominated by two or three people with lots to say. That's not what it's for. I like your approach better than ours.