5 ms·

The parent quite literally wrote > (versus whites, indians, asians, etc.) This is saying those problems don't exist for another group. You are either poorly

The parent quite literally wrote > (versus whites, indians, asians, etc.) This is saying those problems don't exist for another group. You are either poorly trolling or unable to read.

shawnz 8y ago
No, what they are saying is that those groups don't face inherent socioeconomic challenges simply due to being a part of that group, in the same way that for example black and Hispanic people do. That doesn't mean nobody else can face socioeconomic challenges.
- mieseratte 8y ago
  What socioeconomic challenge, in this day and age, applies to American blacks but not American asians, whites, or any other group who are applying to university?
  - shawnz 8y ago
    Are you serious? What about the fact that American black and Hispanic families are disproportionately living in ghettos due to the barriers that have been purposefully imposed on them over the last century?
    - mieseratte 8y ago
      You do realize that there are black people who do not live in the ghetto and whites who do, right? Being poor is not a problem exclusive to any given race. At the same time, rural Appalachian whites have faced comparable socioeconomic exploitation. The historical mechanics of exploitation may differ, but the affect and outcome is the same.
      - shawnz 8y ago
        Like I said previously: Nobody is claiming that white people can't suffer from poverty. But no white American was ever forced into poverty solely on the basis of their being white. White people can face poverty but being white does not cause poverty. Similarly just because black Americans are disproportionately affected by poverty doesn't mean that every black American is poor.
        mieseratte 8y ago
        See, here is my problem. The parent post claimed that blacks, specifically, face classes of problems that no other group does when attempting university and that this is problematic because it may exclude non-traditional routes to learning "ethics" which in turn may exclude them from software jobs. My point of contention is that, in this day and age, these problems apply equally and to single out a race is wrong. I'm not debating the historical jackasseries of why various groups have arrived in disadvantaged positions, my contention is solely on casting modern socioeconomic barriers along racial lines. For whatever reason, you have seized on this while simultaneously removing any and all context and are attempting to paint me as claiming blacks haven't suffered / whites have based on race relations. This was never even a part of the conversation but you keep placing "points" in my mouth that I never made and then debating them. You're derailing the conversation.
        shawnz 8y ago
        > The parent post claimed that blacks, specifically, face classes of problems that no other group does when attempting university Right, they face the specific socioeconomic problem of being disproportionately likely to be affected by poverty. It's true that white people can also be affected by poverty and that would make it harder for them to be successful in university just the same, but a white person is not made specifically more likely to be impoverished just by being white. That is the specific problem which black people face that white people don't. That doesn't mean that every single individual black person is going to be affected by that specific problem, or that no white person will face the same consequences in spite of not facing the same underlying causes. > My point of contention is that, in this day and age, these problems apply equally Again: the parent never claimed that other races aren't affected by poverty. Just that other races do not face systemic issues that push them into poverty. That aspect of the issue does not apply equally. You say you are not debating the fact that black people are in a disadvantaged position but that is literally the point being made here, that they are in a disadvantaged position which makes them disproportionately affected by class barriers. Nobody is saying we shouldn't be addressing these problems as they apply to white people or impoverished people in general, just that the classful nature of the request is especially heinous because it has the potential to disproportionately affect people who face specific class barriers (which is something that white people in fact do not face). > You're derailing the conversation. I disagree. The conversation wasn't really about race until you made it so. The parent was simply pointing out how creating barriers which depend on class is going to disproportionately affect people that face systemic class barriers, such as black people. White people do not face systemic class barriers but that doesn't mean they can't be impoverished or struggle to achieve success in education, and nobody is claiming the contrary. However it seems like you are being blinded from seeing their actual point by some kind of desire to make sure white people aren't getting unfairly criticized.

The parent quite literally wrote > (versus whites, indians, asians, etc.) This is saying those problems don't exist for another group. You are either poorly trolling or unable to read.

shawnz 8y ago

No, what they are saying is that those groups don't face inherent socioeconomic challenges simply due to being a part of that group, in the same way that for example black and Hispanic people do. That doesn't mean nobody else can face socioeconomic challenges.

mieseratte 8y ago
What socioeconomic challenge, in this day and age, applies to American blacks but not American asians, whites, or any other group who are applying to university?
- shawnz 8y ago
  Are you serious? What about the fact that American black and Hispanic families are disproportionately living in ghettos due to the barriers that have been purposefully imposed on them over the last century?
  - mieseratte 8y ago
    You do realize that there are black people who do not live in the ghetto and whites who do, right? Being poor is not a problem exclusive to any given race. At the same time, rural Appalachian whites have faced comparable socioeconomic exploitation. The historical mechanics of exploitation may differ, but the affect and outcome is the same.
    - shawnz 8y ago
      Like I said previously: Nobody is claiming that white people can't suffer from poverty. But no white American was ever forced into poverty solely on the basis of their being white. White people can face poverty but being white does not cause poverty. Similarly just because black Americans are disproportionately affected by poverty doesn't mean that every black American is poor.
      - mieseratte 8y ago
        See, here is my problem. The parent post claimed that blacks, specifically, face classes of problems that no other group does when attempting university and that this is problematic because it may exclude non-traditional routes to learning "ethics" which in turn may exclude them from software jobs. My point of contention is that, in this day and age, these problems apply equally and to single out a race is wrong. I'm not debating the historical jackasseries of why various groups have arrived in disadvantaged positions, my contention is solely on casting modern socioeconomic barriers along racial lines. For whatever reason, you have seized on this while simultaneously removing any and all context and are attempting to paint me as claiming blacks haven't suffered / whites have based on race relations. This was never even a part of the conversation but you keep placing "points" in my mouth that I never made and then debating them. You're derailing the conversation.
        shawnz 8y ago
        > The parent post claimed that blacks, specifically, face classes of problems that no other group does when attempting university Right, they face the specific socioeconomic problem of being disproportionately likely to be affected by poverty. It's true that white people can also be affected by poverty and that would make it harder for them to be successful in university just the same, but a white person is not made specifically more likely to be impoverished just by being white. That is the specific problem which black people face that white people don't. That doesn't mean that every single individual black person is going to be affected by that specific problem, or that no white person will face the same consequences in spite of not facing the same underlying causes. > My point of contention is that, in this day and age, these problems apply equally Again: the parent never claimed that other races aren't affected by poverty. Just that other races do not face systemic issues that push them into poverty. That aspect of the issue does not apply equally. You say you are not debating the fact that black people are in a disadvantaged position but that is literally the point being made here, that they are in a disadvantaged position which makes them disproportionately affected by class barriers. Nobody is saying we shouldn't be addressing these problems as they apply to white people or impoverished people in general, just that the classful nature of the request is especially heinous because it has the potential to disproportionately affect people who face specific class barriers (which is something that white people in fact do not face). > You're derailing the conversation. I disagree. The conversation wasn't really about race until you made it so. The parent was simply pointing out how creating barriers which depend on class is going to disproportionately affect people that face systemic class barriers, such as black people. White people do not face systemic class barriers but that doesn't mean they can't be impoverished or struggle to achieve success in education, and nobody is claiming the contrary. However it seems like you are being blinded from seeing their actual point by some kind of desire to make sure white people aren't getting unfairly criticized.