4 ms·
Aside, not relevant to the article discussed here. constitution that was essentially written by Americans I cannot speak about Japan, but that's histor
by mafribe 7y ago
Aside, not relevant to the article discussed here.
constitution that was essentially
written by Americans
I cannot speak about Japan, but that's historically false for Germany. If you look at the list of participants in the main events that drafted the West German constitution such as the Rittersturz-Konferenz [1] and the
Verfassungskonvent auf Herrenchiemsee [2], then you'll see that all participants are German. Naturally, the allies had to agree, but they were split in a big way. The Soviet Union anyway, but the US and France really had very different ideas. France, in particular, wanted to snatch the Saar region. Naturally the drafters of the German constitution were inspired in particular by the US constitution, because it was rather successful.
[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rittersturz-Konferenz https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rittersturz-Konferenz
[2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verfassungskonvent_auf_Herrenchiemsee https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verfassungskonvent_auf_Herrenc...
- deugtniet 7y agoMy constitutional knowledge on the German constitution is a bit rusty, but I guess you hit the nail on the head when you say: 'Naturally, the allies had to agree'. The Allies were the ones that required these conferences and approved of the Germans that went there. I guess the English and the French had some say, but really the big dog of the allies was the US. So I stand by my statement.
- mafribe 7y agoI'd be interested to learn which part of the german constitution was "essentially written by the americans". Can you give an example? Just one? Please don't forget that (1) the allies had really diametrically opposed goals -- France had to be coerced by the UK and the US to agree to the draft constiution. Moreover, (2) the allies tried hard to avoid the impression that they were forcing anything on the german drafters. Only the date for the drafting conference was an allied constraint: 1. September 1948. The allies wanted to West-German population to accept the constitution, remember the cold was was hotting up at the time, and Soviet union was good at exploiting discontent. approved of the Germans that went there Is that even true? Was there an official approval process? Have you got a reference for this claim?
- azernik 7y agoNo, they did not; the conferences were attended by the governments of the German states, who had passed through the de-Nazification filter but were otherwise selected by purely German political processes. When it came to the content of the constitution, the Allies' conditions were clear and pretty general - it had to be democratic, and it had to be federal. (The latter was distinguished from the Weimar constitution only in that the Allies insisted on general size parity between states.) Plus complying with occupation policy on control of heavy industry. See https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurter_Dokumente https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurter_Dokumente The main principles of the constitution itself were assembled by German elected governments of the states (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verfassungskonvent_auf_Herrenchiemsee#Ergebnisse https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verfassungskonvent_auf_Herrenc...), and were very much direct responses to the process of the Nazi takeover in 1933.
- yarrel 7y agoIn Soviet Russia, England, France and America ally with you!
- sctb 7y agoCould you please just post thoughtfully and informatively? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- azernik 7y agoSpecifically, the German Constitution was drafted by parties associated with the Weimar coalition, and very much reflects the lessons learned from the fall of the Weimar Republic.
- mafribe 7y agoYes, that's also what I though. The new German constitution was heavily based on the Weimar constitution, but the parts that made Weimar unstable were replaced so those failure modes no longer apply, e.g. Weimar's destruktives Misstrauensvotum was replaced by konstruktives Misstrauensvotum, cf [1, 2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_of_no_confidence#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_of_no_confidence#German... [2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misstrauensvotum https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misstrauensvotum
- stcredzero 7y agoAccording to Leonard Peikoff, the laws of the Weimar Republic which touched on Human Rights all had an "out" for the government to suspend rights in case of a national emergency or "for the common good." Is this accurate and is this still the case today?
- azernik 7y agoEmergency powers were indeed reduced. But more importantly, the post-war constitution was not allowed to be amended in ways that would contradict its "liberal democratic basic order" (banning a rerun of the Enabling Act).