4 ms·

Has the US ever “snatched up” someone from the middle of London?

by Gaelan 7y ago

hhh 7y ago
[redacted]
cyphar 7y ago
Not in London, but GP linked two examples (one in Macedonia and one in Italy). There are also many other examples of CIA-run extraordinary rendition[1]. However in these cases they were both done with co-operation from the local police (or military) and government as part of the US "war on terror" (abductions without local government approval have also happened in the past -- Mossad did this in the 1960s[2] -- but I don't recall a US example). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture
- primroot 7y ago
  Where is the cooperation here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case I really fail to see it.
  - cyphar 7y ago
    In the second sentence: > The case was picked by the international media as one of the better-documented cases of extraordinary rendition carried out in a joint operation by the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the Italian Military Intelligence and Security Service (SISMI) [emphasis added] A joint operation implies there was co-operation. I'm not saying the US has never conducted extraordinary rendition without local government involvement, just that the two examples aren't like that.
    - primroot 7y ago
      You are right then. I missed it because I was focusing on the way the Italian judiciary handled the case afterwards, which indicates the clandestine nature of the co-operation.
- monocasa 7y ago
  Going to throw out there that they've done the same in Sweden as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an...
freeflight 7y ago
They've done it in countries to which they are way less "aligned" than the UK [0] and the UK has historically been the US's strongest partner on all things "national security/terrorism". In that context, I wouldn't really be surprised if it's happened before, tho the blowback potential, if it should become public, would be massive so it will probably be kept under extremely tight wraps. [0] https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/20-extraordinary-facts-about-cia-extraordinary-rendition-and-secret-detention https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/20-extraordina...
- monocasa 7y ago
  For whatever reason, the UK has been extremely against extraordinary rendition despite being aligned with the US. It was a decent sized scandal that rendition flights had even just refueled in Diego Garcia (a UK territory). These sorts of things can't be looked at in terms of broad 'alignment'.
  - inflatableDodo 7y ago
    Come on, they also went through Prestwick Airport, just outside Glasgow. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-told-to-stay-off-us-plane-at-prestwick-airport-bt7r9nz0z https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-told-to-stay-off-u... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/29/msps-demand-action-over-use-of-scottish-airports-for-rendition https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/29/msps-demand-... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22680924 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22680924
    - monocasa 7y ago
      Word, I didn't see that last year. So yes, even just refueling is something the MSPs demand action over. Not sure why that's worthy of "come on" like it invalidates my point.
      - inflatableDodo 7y ago
        >even just refueling is something the MSPs demand action over. Yep, Members of the Scottish Parliament have been pissed off. Scottish police were blocked from doing anything however. Westminster unfortunately rides roughshod over both of them and has been a supporter of the rendition flights, as noted in the article from The Times. >"The CIA has been accused of using Scottish airports to facilitate the transfer of terrorism suspects to overseas black sites for interrogation and torture. >A report by Westminster’s intelligence and security committee (ISC) says that MI5 or MI6 was involved in at least 50 rendition operations."

Has the US ever “snatched up” someone from the middle of London?

by Gaelan 7y ago

Has the US ever “snatched up” someone from the middle of London?

hhh 7y ago

[redacted]

cyphar 7y ago

Not in London, but GP linked two examples (one in Macedonia and one in Italy). There are also many other examples of CIA-run extraordinary rendition[1]. However in these cases they were both done with co-operation from the local police (or military) and government as part of the US "war on terror" (abductions without local government approval have also happened in the past -- Mossad did this in the 1960s[2] -- but I don't recall a US example). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Capture

primroot 7y ago
Where is the cooperation here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case I really fail to see it.
- cyphar 7y ago
  In the second sentence: > The case was picked by the international media as one of the better-documented cases of extraordinary rendition carried out in a joint operation by the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the Italian Military Intelligence and Security Service (SISMI) [emphasis added] A joint operation implies there was co-operation. I'm not saying the US has never conducted extraordinary rendition without local government involvement, just that the two examples aren't like that.
  - primroot 7y ago
    You are right then. I missed it because I was focusing on the way the Italian judiciary handled the case afterwards, which indicates the clandestine nature of the co-operation.
monocasa 7y ago
Going to throw out there that they've done the same in Sweden as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an...

freeflight 7y ago

They've done it in countries to which they are way less "aligned" than the UK [0] and the UK has historically been the US's strongest partner on all things "national security/terrorism". In that context, I wouldn't really be surprised if it's happened before, tho the blowback potential, if it should become public, would be massive so it will probably be kept under extremely tight wraps. [0] https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/20-extraordinary-facts-about-cia-extraordinary-rendition-and-secret-detention https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/20-extraordina...

monocasa 7y ago
For whatever reason, the UK has been extremely against extraordinary rendition despite being aligned with the US. It was a decent sized scandal that rendition flights had even just refueled in Diego Garcia (a UK territory). These sorts of things can't be looked at in terms of broad 'alignment'.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  Come on, they also went through Prestwick Airport, just outside Glasgow. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-told-to-stay-off-us-plane-at-prestwick-airport-bt7r9nz0z https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-told-to-stay-off-u... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/29/msps-demand-action-over-use-of-scottish-airports-for-rendition https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/29/msps-demand-... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22680924 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22680924
  - monocasa 7y ago
    Word, I didn't see that last year. So yes, even just refueling is something the MSPs demand action over. Not sure why that's worthy of "come on" like it invalidates my point.
    - inflatableDodo 7y ago
      >even just refueling is something the MSPs demand action over. Yep, Members of the Scottish Parliament have been pissed off. Scottish police were blocked from doing anything however. Westminster unfortunately rides roughshod over both of them and has been a supporter of the rendition flights, as noted in the article from The Times. >"The CIA has been accused of using Scottish airports to facilitate the transfer of terrorism suspects to overseas black sites for interrogation and torture. >A report by Westminster’s intelligence and security committee (ISC) says that MI5 or MI6 was involved in at least 50 rendition operations."