9 ms·

European universities dismal at reporting results of clinical trials

128 points by lainon 7y ago

yostrovs 7y ago
It's starting to seem like we agressively discuss a lot of proposed European rules here on HN. But, when they come into effect they're immediately ignored by the people who should be complying and the people who should be enforcing.
- vesinisa 7y ago
  In this instance it might be because there are is no penalty for running afoul of the obligations: > Updated laws on clinical trials that are not expected to become legally binding until 2020 specify that there should be penalties for institutions that don’t comply with the rules. If following the rules was a mandatory requirement for further funding for the same institution, I am sure they would update their internal policies in an eyeblink.
  - SCHiM 7y ago
    Same with gdpr, it was on the rolls since 2016(?)
    - mercer 7y ago
      I've been (naively?) surprised at how many websites clearly break the GDPR rules we've been wringing our hand over on HN for the past months.
      - l4u532 7y ago
        GDPR is imposed regularly, see [1] for an early account. Or do you mean something else? [1] https://www.gdprtoday.org/gdpr-in-numbers/ https://www.gdprtoday.org/gdpr-in-numbers/
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
Proven 7y ago
Of course they are. Taxes-funded, never earned an honest dime in their lives.
jcranmer 7y ago
US universities are also pretty bad: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2018/09/20/reporting-clinical-trials https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2018/09/20/re..., although Europe seems to be doing a worse job at complying with mandatory reporting in general. Funnily enough, everyone with 100% compliance is a Big Pharma company, while everyone with 0% compliance is an academic university.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  The Big Pharma universities are probably pushed to do it by the companies.
  - aetherson 7y ago
    I think you misread your parent comment. There aren't Big Pharma Universities. Big Pharma companies have good compliance, universities have bad compliance.
    - Mirioron 7y ago
      You're right. I misread it as universities backed by big pharma.
- throwayEngineer 7y ago
  Academia is about ego, not being correct. If you are getting a PhD, you prove what your professor tells you. It seems every time I read a published study, the data is unusable, but they claim an extremely specific outcome. My curiosity, why does the peer review process let this go?
  - blix 7y ago
    Collaborator to me, recently: "It doesn't matter what's in the paper, I am on the editorial board and it will get published. It's more important that we aren't scooped than that the result is accurate." I'm sure they are somewhat different in pharma than where I live, but academic incentives are very wonky and often not conducive to "Quality Research".
Creationer 7y ago
How many of these studies are conducted in English vs. the legacy local language?
- ginko 7y ago
  Languages other than English are considered legacy now?
  - Creationer 7y ago
    For Academia, yes. All of the scientific articles are written in that language. The youngest generations are hugely influenced by Youtube and the internet, and many speak English more fluently than their own legacy local language. This is a great thing for humanity. A common language will ease the flow of ideas and simplify commerce.
    - mefsb 7y ago
      And destroy a great deal of culture. No thanks.
      - hak8or 7y ago
        Who cares about the culture? The in efficiency due to the lack of a common language is large, standardizing on a language would be an amazing boost to productivity and pushing humanity forward.
      - Creationer 7y ago
        Culture is not language, it is the people. Why do people defend language, which can be recorded, yet are silent on the significantly below-replacement fertility rates of some European populations, and the high levels of immigration that will eventually replace the native 'cultures'?
        dragonwriter 7y ago
        > Culture is not language, it is the people. No, culture is not people, it is the shared behaviors and values of the people; use of a particular language is part of that. Immigration may threaten that (since the immigrants do bring their own culture), but immigrants often assimilate into the host culture, or at least adopt large portions of it. Culture is not genetic heritage.
DylanSchaw 7y ago
University studies are very important, but not always accurate. I am interested in this issue and will be happy to help. I write essays on various topics, you can get essay help at https://papersowl.com/essay-help https://papersowl.com/essay-help , I hope this will be useful for you, good luck.
ylem 7y ago
An interesting read on the effects of FDA trial registration requirements and publication bias: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6199729/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6199729/

128 points by lainon 7y ago

It's starting to seem like we agressively discuss a lot of proposed European rules here on HN. But, when they come into effect they're immediately ignored by the people who should be complying and the people who should be enforcing.

vesinisa 7y ago
In this instance it might be because there are is no penalty for running afoul of the obligations: > Updated laws on clinical trials that are not expected to become legally binding until 2020 specify that there should be penalties for institutions that don’t comply with the rules. If following the rules was a mandatory requirement for further funding for the same institution, I am sure they would update their internal policies in an eyeblink.
- SCHiM 7y ago
  Same with gdpr, it was on the rolls since 2016(?)
  - mercer 7y ago
    I've been (naively?) surprised at how many websites clearly break the GDPR rules we've been wringing our hand over on HN for the past months.
    - l4u532 7y ago
      GDPR is imposed regularly, see [1] for an early account. Or do you mean something else? [1] https://www.gdprtoday.org/gdpr-in-numbers/ https://www.gdprtoday.org/gdpr-in-numbers/
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

Proven 7y ago

Of course they are. Taxes-funded, never earned an honest dime in their lives.

jcranmer 7y ago

US universities are also pretty bad: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2018/09/20/reporting-clinical-trials https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2018/09/20/re..., although Europe seems to be doing a worse job at complying with mandatory reporting in general. Funnily enough, everyone with 100% compliance is a Big Pharma company, while everyone with 0% compliance is an academic university.

Mirioron 7y ago
The Big Pharma universities are probably pushed to do it by the companies.
- aetherson 7y ago
  I think you misread your parent comment. There aren't Big Pharma Universities. Big Pharma companies have good compliance, universities have bad compliance.
  - Mirioron 7y ago
    You're right. I misread it as universities backed by big pharma.
throwayEngineer 7y ago
Academia is about ego, not being correct. If you are getting a PhD, you prove what your professor tells you. It seems every time I read a published study, the data is unusable, but they claim an extremely specific outcome. My curiosity, why does the peer review process let this go?
- blix 7y ago
  Collaborator to me, recently: "It doesn't matter what's in the paper, I am on the editorial board and it will get published. It's more important that we aren't scooped than that the result is accurate." I'm sure they are somewhat different in pharma than where I live, but academic incentives are very wonky and often not conducive to "Quality Research".

Creationer 7y ago

How many of these studies are conducted in English vs. the legacy local language?

ginko 7y ago
Languages other than English are considered legacy now?
- Creationer 7y ago
  For Academia, yes. All of the scientific articles are written in that language. The youngest generations are hugely influenced by Youtube and the internet, and many speak English more fluently than their own legacy local language. This is a great thing for humanity. A common language will ease the flow of ideas and simplify commerce.
  - mefsb 7y ago
    And destroy a great deal of culture. No thanks.
    - hak8or 7y ago
      Who cares about the culture? The in efficiency due to the lack of a common language is large, standardizing on a language would be an amazing boost to productivity and pushing humanity forward.
    - Creationer 7y ago
      Culture is not language, it is the people. Why do people defend language, which can be recorded, yet are silent on the significantly below-replacement fertility rates of some European populations, and the high levels of immigration that will eventually replace the native 'cultures'?
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
        > Culture is not language, it is the people. No, culture is not people, it is the shared behaviors and values of the people; use of a particular language is part of that. Immigration may threaten that (since the immigrants do bring their own culture), but immigrants often assimilate into the host culture, or at least adopt large portions of it. Culture is not genetic heritage.

DylanSchaw 7y ago

University studies are very important, but not always accurate. I am interested in this issue and will be happy to help. I write essays on various topics, you can get essay help at https://papersowl.com/essay-help https://papersowl.com/essay-help , I hope this will be useful for you, good luck.

ylem 7y ago

An interesting read on the effects of FDA trial registration requirements and publication bias: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6199729/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6199729/