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45% of electricity capacity NOT energy consumed. The distinction is extremely important. Those percentages talk about how much capacity they have to produce el

45% of electricity capacity NOT energy consumed. The distinction is extremely important. Those percentages talk about how much capacity they have to produce electricity in Germany NOT how much they consume from that capacity (capacity factor is the important word and that's only between 20-40% of that capacity. Plus those percentages is before you include how much energy is important. In other words that number is highly highly misleading.

_ph_ 8y ago
No, the number is the actual electricity produced. You can see the numbers here: https://www.energy-charts.de/ren_share_de.htm https://www.energy-charts.de/ren_share_de.htm The average of reneweable energy in Germany for 2019 so far is 46.5%, it was slightly over 40% in 2018.
- ThomPete 8y ago
  The number is not the electricity consumed. Again capacity factor needs to be factored in plus all the other things I just listed for you. So it's highly misleading. On top of that, we haven't even talked about the fact that it's increased the prices dramatically for the german consumer and it's not going to reduce CO2 emissions even looking into the future maybe even slightly increase it because of the need to support it with coal now that they are closing the nuclear power plants. It's a huge failure.
  - _ph_ 8y ago
    You should start providing numbers and links to base your argumentation on. I have provided a link which clearly shows the increase of reneweables in the consumed electricity. Equally, the CO2 per kWh is constantly declining, now at about 480 g/kWh. So CO2 emissions due to electricity production are clearly decreasing in Germany. It is also wrong to speak about "now that they are closing nuclear power plants". Quite a few already have been closed, we habe about 8 left, on average one of those is going to be closed every year, nuclear power is quite small in Germany already. Yes, it will have an impact on the bilance, but the buildup of reneweable energy far exceeds the decomissioning of nuclear power plants.
    - ThomPete 8y ago
      I used to think like you. Then I started digging into things a little deeper and came away utterly horrified at how much of what we read is completely misleading. Lets start with the idea that wind is somehow making strides: https://www.iea.org/weo/?fbclid=IwAR349_IjpQUn2HChgQCGGaYlR6xPPMpgdaiOgj33o1EhPDSTDSbAM5D8ZIo https://www.iea.org/weo/?fbclid=IwAR349_IjpQUn2HChgQCGGaYlR6... Today it's less than 1% of the world's energy (which is the important factor here not just electricity) Projected to be 3% in 2040. With regards to Germanys ELECTRICITY usage (again it's not energy but electricity): https://www.energycentral.com/c/ec/reality-check-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar-panels https://www.energycentral.com/c/ec/reality-check-germany-doe... And again pile up all the other things I talked on top of that and you get to why your "facts" are not actually useful but misleading. Regarding energy prices in Germany https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-households-and-industry-pay-highest-power-prices-europe https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-households-and-i... Regarding capacity factor: http://www.nmppenergy.org/feature/capacity_factor http://www.nmppenergy.org/feature/capacity_factor Regarding CO2 emissions: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-germany-emissions/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-germany-emissions/
      - _ph_ 8y ago
        >I used to think like you. Then I started digging into things a little deeper and came away utterly horrified at how much of >what we read is completely misleading. >Lets start with the idea that wind is somehow making strides: >https://www.iea.org/weo/?fbclid=IwAR349_IjpQUn2HChgQCGGaYlR6.. https://www.iea.org/weo/?fbclid=IwAR349_IjpQUn2HChgQCGGaYlR6.... >Today it's less than 1% of the world's energy (which is the important factor here not just electricity) Projected to be 3% >in 2040. I wasn't talking about the world number, but the German number. >With regards to Germanys ELECTRICITY usage (again it's not energy but electricity): >https://www.energycentral.com/c/ec/reality-check-germany-doe.. https://www.energycentral.com/c/ec/reality-check-germany-doe.... >And again pile up all the other things I talked on top of that and you get to why your "facts" are not actually useful but >misleading. Besides that link being from 2014, we have added a lot of reneweables since, it isn't contradicting what I said. >Regarding energy prices in Germany >https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-households-and-i.. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-households-and-i.... Yes, energy prices in Germany are high for private households, as the costs for the transition are put only on private consumers and small businesses while large industries pay none of it. This is rightfully critisized by many. What is the relevance for the discussion here? > Regarding capacity factor: http://www.nmppenergy.org/feature/capacity_factor http://www.nmppenergy.org/feature/capacity_factor Yes, and? > Regarding CO2 emissions: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-germany-emissions/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-germany-emissions/ This article actually confirms the numbers I named, with almost 40% reneweables in 2017. So you show that your claim about my numbers is wrong. Thanks.

_ph_ 8y ago

No, the number is the actual electricity produced. You can see the numbers here: https://www.energy-charts.de/ren_share_de.htm https://www.energy-charts.de/ren_share_de.htm The average of reneweable energy in Germany for 2019 so far is 46.5%, it was slightly over 40% in 2018.

ThomPete 8y ago
The number is not the electricity consumed. Again capacity factor needs to be factored in plus all the other things I just listed for you. So it's highly misleading. On top of that, we haven't even talked about the fact that it's increased the prices dramatically for the german consumer and it's not going to reduce CO2 emissions even looking into the future maybe even slightly increase it because of the need to support it with coal now that they are closing the nuclear power plants. It's a huge failure.
- _ph_ 8y ago
  You should start providing numbers and links to base your argumentation on. I have provided a link which clearly shows the increase of reneweables in the consumed electricity. Equally, the CO2 per kWh is constantly declining, now at about 480 g/kWh. So CO2 emissions due to electricity production are clearly decreasing in Germany. It is also wrong to speak about "now that they are closing nuclear power plants". Quite a few already have been closed, we habe about 8 left, on average one of those is going to be closed every year, nuclear power is quite small in Germany already. Yes, it will have an impact on the bilance, but the buildup of reneweable energy far exceeds the decomissioning of nuclear power plants.
  - ThomPete 8y ago
    I used to think like you. Then I started digging into things a little deeper and came away utterly horrified at how much of what we read is completely misleading. Lets start with the idea that wind is somehow making strides: https://www.iea.org/weo/?fbclid=IwAR349_IjpQUn2HChgQCGGaYlR6xPPMpgdaiOgj33o1EhPDSTDSbAM5D8ZIo https://www.iea.org/weo/?fbclid=IwAR349_IjpQUn2HChgQCGGaYlR6... Today it's less than 1% of the world's energy (which is the important factor here not just electricity) Projected to be 3% in 2040. With regards to Germanys ELECTRICITY usage (again it's not energy but electricity): https://www.energycentral.com/c/ec/reality-check-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar-panels https://www.energycentral.com/c/ec/reality-check-germany-doe... And again pile up all the other things I talked on top of that and you get to why your "facts" are not actually useful but misleading. Regarding energy prices in Germany https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-households-and-industry-pay-highest-power-prices-europe https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-households-and-i... Regarding capacity factor: http://www.nmppenergy.org/feature/capacity_factor http://www.nmppenergy.org/feature/capacity_factor Regarding CO2 emissions: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-germany-emissions/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-germany-emissions/
    - _ph_ 8y ago
      >I used to think like you. Then I started digging into things a little deeper and came away utterly horrified at how much of >what we read is completely misleading. >Lets start with the idea that wind is somehow making strides: >https://www.iea.org/weo/?fbclid=IwAR349_IjpQUn2HChgQCGGaYlR6.. https://www.iea.org/weo/?fbclid=IwAR349_IjpQUn2HChgQCGGaYlR6.... >Today it's less than 1% of the world's energy (which is the important factor here not just electricity) Projected to be 3% >in 2040. I wasn't talking about the world number, but the German number. >With regards to Germanys ELECTRICITY usage (again it's not energy but electricity): >https://www.energycentral.com/c/ec/reality-check-germany-doe.. https://www.energycentral.com/c/ec/reality-check-germany-doe.... >And again pile up all the other things I talked on top of that and you get to why your "facts" are not actually useful but >misleading. Besides that link being from 2014, we have added a lot of reneweables since, it isn't contradicting what I said. >Regarding energy prices in Germany >https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-households-and-i.. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-households-and-i.... Yes, energy prices in Germany are high for private households, as the costs for the transition are put only on private consumers and small businesses while large industries pay none of it. This is rightfully critisized by many. What is the relevance for the discussion here? > Regarding capacity factor: http://www.nmppenergy.org/feature/capacity_factor http://www.nmppenergy.org/feature/capacity_factor Yes, and? > Regarding CO2 emissions: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-germany-emissions/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-germany-emissions/ This article actually confirms the numbers I named, with almost 40% reneweables in 2017. So you show that your claim about my numbers is wrong. Thanks.