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As a 52 year old Scottish person who's doing ok('ish), and typically in a Scottish fashion has no problem being forthright, I don't have a problem stating that

As a 52 year old Scottish person who's doing ok('ish), and typically in a Scottish fashion has no problem being forthright, I don't have a problem stating that for any normal human being in a professional career....this is mostly a pile of wank. I guess my point is, sure it's nice to reflect on your <30 life, but no-one normal in their late teens and into their 20's needs to apply any of this bollocks. Go enjoy your 20's, you never get them back again, they were the best years of my life and I did very little tech. You're likely never going to be Mark Zuckerberg or the Google twins (god forbid). If you do come up with a cracking idea (like the Stripe brothers) then go yourself, but this list is what is wrong with our industry when it comes to younger folks entering the biz. You don't need these crutches, you either got it or you don't. But I implore folks in their 20's to go get some life experience, and then develop a "life changing" or "disrupting" app. And you know there's nothing wrong with being an expert mort, with a blog and now and again being invited to talk at a session on your favourite tech you got invested in. Happy to answer questions.

HNLurker2 8y ago
>(god forbid) AFAIK they are my ideal. They are the best founders in my opinion
- teh_klev 8y ago
  Sorry my friend, you couldn't offer me a million dollar a year salary to work for Google and the "others".
- Phlarp 8y ago
  If you really feel this way, go read the comments in the thread about Eric Schmidt leaving the Alphabet board of directors. Larry and Sergey are far from an "ideal" and the blind hero worship is unlikely to serve you. It's fine to recognize their successes, but understand that they made plenty of mistakes.
todd3834 8y ago
I was heavily involved in the startup scene all through my 20s, now in my 30s and still loving it. Turns out you can both be involved in tech and startups in your 20s and have it be the best time in your life. Everyone has different interests in life and we all have our own paths. I agree, enjoy your 20s, but you don't have to avoid tech, startups or hard work in order to accomplish that. Some of my favorite memories from my 20s are in the office late at night with my co-workers/life long friends trying to change the world. I'm still very close with many of those people and it doesn't feel like any of that time was wasted.
- imesh 8y ago
  People should do what they want to do. You don't want to be anybody else otherwise you would be that person. I know how I would do my life over, but I don't think anyone else other than me would like to have my current life nor my hypothetical do-over life.
- teh_klev 8y ago
  To clarify, I didn't avoid tech. I kept my eye on the game and learned new stuff and old stuff (Distributed computing, Java - circa '97, CORBA, DCOM - that was the thing of its time and then XML blah blah blah) but that was on my time when I felt like doing this. But I'll never regret prioritising the fun of hooning around on my motorbikes, camping, bike meetups, beer, smoking a doobie and all the other things....and I met some seriously wonderful folks in my life during this time, loves and lovers in my life, and then those that were not and are still amazing friends, writers, poets, comedians, mechanics who are all still friends (some have passed away sadly). I learned so many good things from these folks in my 17-20's that influenced my attitude when it comes to working in "IT", and I hope better things than youngsters these days seem in earnest try to learn from hucksters such as Zuckerberg unicorns et al. (Sorry that last sentence is a bit tortured) [edit] didn't answer todd3834's comment properly. In the late 80's/early 90's (I was kinda 17-20'ish) I worked as an apprentice Data General engineer. Basically we resurrected and refurbished old DG mini's for export to places in South America where an S/130 would be a fairly decent bit of kit for a local authority already running some older Nova kit. I had a lot of fun doing that. I learned wire-wrap, component level debug all sorts of things, I knew the 74 series TTL logic book almost back to front, it was fun and paid for the beer...but it wasn't hugely serious thing. It was something I could do despite being a total dunce at school. But I loved bikes and cars and a bunch of other non-IT things just a bit more back then...[big gap]....and here I am :) [edit 2:] I also loved :)
icebraining 8y ago
Seems like you're just doing the same as the article author ("I did X and you should do the same"); why should a young person follow your advice instead? > You don't need these crutches, you either got it or you don't. On what do you base this? Have you "got it"?
- teh_klev 8y ago
  Um no....I'm just saying don't be beholden to these mythical lists, go do your own thing. I don't advocate my life to anyone, I just described how things worked out for me, the life that I've had without a prescribed list. I advocate creating your own life and experiences then come back when you're 30 and see what you can do. And this doesn't need to involve bikes and doobie smoking :) > On what do you base this? Have you "got it"? Well sometimes some folk just get it lucky and the timing is right for their thing.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    I didn't say you were advocating your life. But you are advocating your own list, it's just shorter - Enjoy your 20s - Reflect when you get to 30 I'm sure this worked out to your satisfaction, but then again so (probably) did the list in the article to the person who wrote it. So why is their list bollocks and yours isn't? > Well sometimes some folk just get it lucky and the timing is right for their thing. Maybe, but how do you know that's all there is to it?
    - teh_klev 8y ago
      I'm not advocating, it's just a wee bit of advice based on actual experience. You have a choice to: - Enjoy your 20s - Reflect when you get to 30 Or jump on the grind at 18 or 19. So here's the thing. What is it you want to do? Grind away at work, sat behind a desk, in your 20's, during the most possibly healthy and active part of your life (yeah I know smoking doobies and drinking beer isn't healthy - just do it in moderation). Or you could be doing things such as mountain climbing, cycling, lots of other physical activities. I did all these things in my 20's and by god I'm so pleased I did because now in work I don't have as much time to engage in these things. My late 20's set a health baseline, sure you can't bank this, but at 47 when I had a full cardio check due to panic attacks, it seems those years between 17 and 30 have (so far) held me in good stead. No guarantees though. But you know it's up to you, but don't be clouded (I'm sure there's a better word) by articles such as this as a panacea for success, both career-wise and in life. > So why is their list bollocks and yours isn't? Because the wrote this in hindsight. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, you can be really preachy about it. By god I've got a catalogue of hindsight, but do I regret apparently wasting my 20's, not at all.
barry-cotter 8y ago
> As a 52 year old Scottish person who's doing ok('ish), and typically in a Scottish fashion has no problem being forthright You could have been more forthright, is that to be interpreted as “As a working class Scot with the tall poppy lie down attitude we’re known for I think the author has a big head and should be dragged down unto the bucket with the rest of us crabs” or “As an upper class Scot I find this talking about how to be successful vulgar, one is supposed to be successful without talking about it unduly.”? > I guess my point is, sure it's nice to reflect on your <30 life, but no-one normal in their late teens and into their 20's needs to apply any of this bollocks. The point of 80,000 Hours is to help people become abnormally effective at solving big, important, neglected problems so if you want to be normal they have nothing to say to you. > Go enjoy your 20's, you never get them back again, they were the best years of my life and I did very little tech. ... This is all fine advice if you have no interest in making a big difference in the world. That’s not what 80,000 Hours is about and it’s not who they’re writing for though they do advise people to do work they’ll enjoy and be happy doing because they’re more likely to stick with it.
- teh_klev 8y ago
  > You could have been more forthright, is that to be interpreted as “As a working class Scot with the tall poppy lie down attitude we’re known for I think the author has a big head and should be dragged down unto the bucket with the rest of us crabs” or “As an upper class Scot I find this talking about how to be successful vulgar, one is supposed to be successful without talking about it unduly.”? Um, no. Scots can be forthright regardless of class, which I imagine you're alluding to. You've no idea what my social background is, and for your insolent comment, I'm going to leave you guessing. Not that it mattered. > abnormally And there is the problem. > This is all fine advice if you have no interest in making a big difference in the world. Oh jesus.

HNLurker2 8y ago

>(god forbid) AFAIK they are my ideal. They are the best founders in my opinion

teh_klev 8y ago
Sorry my friend, you couldn't offer me a million dollar a year salary to work for Google and the "others".
Phlarp 8y ago
If you really feel this way, go read the comments in the thread about Eric Schmidt leaving the Alphabet board of directors. Larry and Sergey are far from an "ideal" and the blind hero worship is unlikely to serve you. It's fine to recognize their successes, but understand that they made plenty of mistakes.

todd3834 8y ago

I was heavily involved in the startup scene all through my 20s, now in my 30s and still loving it. Turns out you can both be involved in tech and startups in your 20s and have it be the best time in your life. Everyone has different interests in life and we all have our own paths. I agree, enjoy your 20s, but you don't have to avoid tech, startups or hard work in order to accomplish that. Some of my favorite memories from my 20s are in the office late at night with my co-workers/life long friends trying to change the world. I'm still very close with many of those people and it doesn't feel like any of that time was wasted.

imesh 8y ago
People should do what they want to do. You don't want to be anybody else otherwise you would be that person. I know how I would do my life over, but I don't think anyone else other than me would like to have my current life nor my hypothetical do-over life.
teh_klev 8y ago
To clarify, I didn't avoid tech. I kept my eye on the game and learned new stuff and old stuff (Distributed computing, Java - circa '97, CORBA, DCOM - that was the thing of its time and then XML blah blah blah) but that was on my time when I felt like doing this. But I'll never regret prioritising the fun of hooning around on my motorbikes, camping, bike meetups, beer, smoking a doobie and all the other things....and I met some seriously wonderful folks in my life during this time, loves and lovers in my life, and then those that were not and are still amazing friends, writers, poets, comedians, mechanics who are all still friends (some have passed away sadly). I learned so many good things from these folks in my 17-20's that influenced my attitude when it comes to working in "IT", and I hope better things than youngsters these days seem in earnest try to learn from hucksters such as Zuckerberg unicorns et al. (Sorry that last sentence is a bit tortured) [edit] didn't answer todd3834's comment properly. In the late 80's/early 90's (I was kinda 17-20'ish) I worked as an apprentice Data General engineer. Basically we resurrected and refurbished old DG mini's for export to places in South America where an S/130 would be a fairly decent bit of kit for a local authority already running some older Nova kit. I had a lot of fun doing that. I learned wire-wrap, component level debug all sorts of things, I knew the 74 series TTL logic book almost back to front, it was fun and paid for the beer...but it wasn't hugely serious thing. It was something I could do despite being a total dunce at school. But I loved bikes and cars and a bunch of other non-IT things just a bit more back then...[big gap]....and here I am :) [edit 2:] I also loved :)

icebraining 8y ago

Seems like you're just doing the same as the article author ("I did X and you should do the same"); why should a young person follow your advice instead? > You don't need these crutches, you either got it or you don't. On what do you base this? Have you "got it"?

teh_klev 8y ago
Um no....I'm just saying don't be beholden to these mythical lists, go do your own thing. I don't advocate my life to anyone, I just described how things worked out for me, the life that I've had without a prescribed list. I advocate creating your own life and experiences then come back when you're 30 and see what you can do. And this doesn't need to involve bikes and doobie smoking :) > On what do you base this? Have you "got it"? Well sometimes some folk just get it lucky and the timing is right for their thing.
- icebraining 8y ago
  I didn't say you were advocating your life. But you are advocating your own list, it's just shorter - Enjoy your 20s - Reflect when you get to 30 I'm sure this worked out to your satisfaction, but then again so (probably) did the list in the article to the person who wrote it. So why is their list bollocks and yours isn't? > Well sometimes some folk just get it lucky and the timing is right for their thing. Maybe, but how do you know that's all there is to it?
  - teh_klev 8y ago
    I'm not advocating, it's just a wee bit of advice based on actual experience. You have a choice to: - Enjoy your 20s - Reflect when you get to 30 Or jump on the grind at 18 or 19. So here's the thing. What is it you want to do? Grind away at work, sat behind a desk, in your 20's, during the most possibly healthy and active part of your life (yeah I know smoking doobies and drinking beer isn't healthy - just do it in moderation). Or you could be doing things such as mountain climbing, cycling, lots of other physical activities. I did all these things in my 20's and by god I'm so pleased I did because now in work I don't have as much time to engage in these things. My late 20's set a health baseline, sure you can't bank this, but at 47 when I had a full cardio check due to panic attacks, it seems those years between 17 and 30 have (so far) held me in good stead. No guarantees though. But you know it's up to you, but don't be clouded (I'm sure there's a better word) by articles such as this as a panacea for success, both career-wise and in life. > So why is their list bollocks and yours isn't? Because the wrote this in hindsight. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, you can be really preachy about it. By god I've got a catalogue of hindsight, but do I regret apparently wasting my 20's, not at all.

barry-cotter 8y ago

> As a 52 year old Scottish person who's doing ok('ish), and typically in a Scottish fashion has no problem being forthright You could have been more forthright, is that to be interpreted as “As a working class Scot with the tall poppy lie down attitude we’re known for I think the author has a big head and should be dragged down unto the bucket with the rest of us crabs” or “As an upper class Scot I find this talking about how to be successful vulgar, one is supposed to be successful without talking about it unduly.”? > I guess my point is, sure it's nice to reflect on your <30 life, but no-one normal in their late teens and into their 20's needs to apply any of this bollocks. The point of 80,000 Hours is to help people become abnormally effective at solving big, important, neglected problems so if you want to be normal they have nothing to say to you. > Go enjoy your 20's, you never get them back again, they were the best years of my life and I did very little tech. ... This is all fine advice if you have no interest in making a big difference in the world. That’s not what 80,000 Hours is about and it’s not who they’re writing for though they do advise people to do work they’ll enjoy and be happy doing because they’re more likely to stick with it.

teh_klev 8y ago
> You could have been more forthright, is that to be interpreted as “As a working class Scot with the tall poppy lie down attitude we’re known for I think the author has a big head and should be dragged down unto the bucket with the rest of us crabs” or “As an upper class Scot I find this talking about how to be successful vulgar, one is supposed to be successful without talking about it unduly.”? Um, no. Scots can be forthright regardless of class, which I imagine you're alluding to. You've no idea what my social background is, and for your insolent comment, I'm going to leave you guessing. Not that it mattered. > abnormally And there is the problem. > This is all fine advice if you have no interest in making a big difference in the world. Oh jesus.