3 ms·

Well, I can’t produce the hard facts. I’m talking about what I know from anecdotal and educational experience. I don’t have sources at hand. Sorry :) If you re

Well, I can’t produce the hard facts. I’m talking about what I know from anecdotal and educational experience. I don’t have sources at hand. Sorry :) If you really care about the subject I encourage you to research it from all points of view. If you can, visit some dairy farms and make your own observations.

simion314 7y ago
I have a ton of experience with farms in third world countries, we did not feed them antibiotics or hormones or special food, only grass or other related plant thing from our grounds. For a long time we had a bull that would do the job when the cows were in heat but when we reduced the number of cows it is too expensive to have a bull and we asked a veterinarian to do the artificial insemination. I did not heard of any magic way to make the cows have more milk, there is no need to have her get pregnant often, and the quality of the milk is related with the food quality. The quantity of the milk is something genetic, some cows just give more milk then others, and some races then other. What I see from some responses her is that the facts were wrong, the cows are not forced in heat(nobody provided a link) and all the thread is based on morals/ethical stuff that I don't want to debate, I wanted to know if I am missing some information(I have no time and need to inform myself on how some bad farms do things because I am not promoting an ideology with facts I did not researched before)
- tomstoms 7y ago
  That’s your prerogative of course. I never said that cattle are forced into heat. Most of western industrialized dairy production use artificial insemination though. That’s hardy controversial or in need of backing up with sources. Nothing ideological about it. You don’t think it qualifies as forcing an animal into pregnancy, well that’s up to you to fit into your ethics framework, nothing I can present as “fact” can change that. It’s perfectly possible to improve the quality of milk (I.e. manipulate fat, protein and lactose contents) via altering feeding regimes. Hardly controversial, and quite common but in the west, through the use of feed concentrates with additives. Nothing ideological about this either. As for hormone supplements to control heat, well, or sure why you find this hard to believe, but the again, your anecdotal experience maybe doesn’t support it. Do some basic research into western industrialized dairy production. You say you don’t have time to research, but the you expect others to do it for you? Not really any constructive about that. My comment was about a question that was asked: do dairy cattle live happy lives? I don’t believe it’s possible to answer that question with hard facts.
  - simion314 7y ago
    >You say you don’t have time to research, but the you expect others to do it for you? Not really any constructive about that. Why should I research since I am not the one that is promoting an agenda, someone said X and I asked for links to read that X is true. People that say that X is true but can't find the place where they found their claim then maybe it is super hard to find or maybe it does not exist.
    - tomstoms 7y ago
      Who is promoting an agenda? I’m making quite incontroversial statements that should be trivial to verify if you have an inch of interest. I’m leaving it to you to make your own ethical considerations. I also gave you one source, and encourage you to explore more on your own. If you don’t to, fine, but then I don’t really see a point about going on about agendas and ideology.
- tomstoms 7y ago
  Do allow me to exemplify how simple research can back up some of my uncontroversial observations. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/product-safety-information/cattle-estrous-cycle-and-fda-approved-animal-drugs-control-and-synchronize-estrus-guide-producers https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/product-safety-informa... “Estrous Control and Synchrony in Cattle Exogenous hormones can mimic the hormones of the natural estrous cycle in cattle. By administering exogenous hormones, producers can control and synchronize estrus in breeding heifers and cows as well as shorten their estrous cycles. Producers can group animals according to the phase of their estrous cycle, which reduces management burdens. Some estrous synchrony regimens may also induce or advance estrus in animals that aren’t cycling (they’re anestrous). For example, a cow is normally anestrous after giving birth, and an estrous synchrony regimen may be used to advance her first heat after calving. This allows her to be bred again sooner. These drug regimens may also be used to advance the timing of the first heat in heifers at puberty.”

simion314 7y ago

I have a ton of experience with farms in third world countries, we did not feed them antibiotics or hormones or special food, only grass or other related plant thing from our grounds. For a long time we had a bull that would do the job when the cows were in heat but when we reduced the number of cows it is too expensive to have a bull and we asked a veterinarian to do the artificial insemination. I did not heard of any magic way to make the cows have more milk, there is no need to have her get pregnant often, and the quality of the milk is related with the food quality. The quantity of the milk is something genetic, some cows just give more milk then others, and some races then other. What I see from some responses her is that the facts were wrong, the cows are not forced in heat(nobody provided a link) and all the thread is based on morals/ethical stuff that I don't want to debate, I wanted to know if I am missing some information(I have no time and need to inform myself on how some bad farms do things because I am not promoting an ideology with facts I did not researched before)

tomstoms 7y ago
That’s your prerogative of course. I never said that cattle are forced into heat. Most of western industrialized dairy production use artificial insemination though. That’s hardy controversial or in need of backing up with sources. Nothing ideological about it. You don’t think it qualifies as forcing an animal into pregnancy, well that’s up to you to fit into your ethics framework, nothing I can present as “fact” can change that. It’s perfectly possible to improve the quality of milk (I.e. manipulate fat, protein and lactose contents) via altering feeding regimes. Hardly controversial, and quite common but in the west, through the use of feed concentrates with additives. Nothing ideological about this either. As for hormone supplements to control heat, well, or sure why you find this hard to believe, but the again, your anecdotal experience maybe doesn’t support it. Do some basic research into western industrialized dairy production. You say you don’t have time to research, but the you expect others to do it for you? Not really any constructive about that. My comment was about a question that was asked: do dairy cattle live happy lives? I don’t believe it’s possible to answer that question with hard facts.
- simion314 7y ago
  >You say you don’t have time to research, but the you expect others to do it for you? Not really any constructive about that. Why should I research since I am not the one that is promoting an agenda, someone said X and I asked for links to read that X is true. People that say that X is true but can't find the place where they found their claim then maybe it is super hard to find or maybe it does not exist.
  - tomstoms 7y ago
    Who is promoting an agenda? I’m making quite incontroversial statements that should be trivial to verify if you have an inch of interest. I’m leaving it to you to make your own ethical considerations. I also gave you one source, and encourage you to explore more on your own. If you don’t to, fine, but then I don’t really see a point about going on about agendas and ideology.
tomstoms 7y ago
Do allow me to exemplify how simple research can back up some of my uncontroversial observations. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/product-safety-information/cattle-estrous-cycle-and-fda-approved-animal-drugs-control-and-synchronize-estrus-guide-producers https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/product-safety-informa... “Estrous Control and Synchrony in Cattle Exogenous hormones can mimic the hormones of the natural estrous cycle in cattle. By administering exogenous hormones, producers can control and synchronize estrus in breeding heifers and cows as well as shorten their estrous cycles. Producers can group animals according to the phase of their estrous cycle, which reduces management burdens. Some estrous synchrony regimens may also induce or advance estrus in animals that aren’t cycling (they’re anestrous). For example, a cow is normally anestrous after giving birth, and an estrous synchrony regimen may be used to advance her first heat after calving. This allows her to be bred again sooner. These drug regimens may also be used to advance the timing of the first heat in heifers at puberty.”