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I don't think the GP meant that to be a problem. What I got from it was "even if safety concerns are legitimate, trained professionals often do the work." So t

I don't think the GP meant that to be a problem. What I got from it was "even if safety concerns are legitimate, trained professionals often do the work." So the safety angle becomes even more silly.

rad_gruchalski 8y ago
For general public, I am not do sure. There‘s a reason why I‘m not attempting replacing the battery in my 2015 mbp or in an iphone. I just don‘t want to cause the damage but I can imagine random people not even waiting until the battery is fully discharged before going in.
- EpicEng 8y ago
  Yet there are any number of equally dangerous activities the average citizen can participate in if they like. There are 100 things in your home that can kill you if you decide to start fiddling. Why are Apple products any different? Why should Apple own the repair aspect? Does Maytag tell me that only a Maytag authorized repair shop is allowed to service my water heater?
  - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
    But they are not. Go on ifixit, order parts and fix, if you wish. Why the downvoting. Heh.
    - EpicEng 8y ago
      This article is literally about Apple lobbying to make it harder for independent operations to repair their devices. They won't sell people parts. What does that say to you?
      - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Source them from places where such laws do not exist?
        EpicEng 8y ago
        I said: >Why should Apple own the repair aspect? And received a response: >But they are [sic] not Whether or not you can work around Apple not shipping parts is irrelevant. They are actively trying to make it harder to source parts and fix your devices.
        rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        > Why should Apple own the repair aspect? I guess that would be relevant if they were trying to retrieve all spares back. Them not wanting make sourcing spares easier does not mean they own the repair aspect.
        dwaltrip 8y ago
        The difficulty of sourcing parts is _directly_ related to how much ownership one has over repairability. If the sourcing of parts becomes overly difficult or impossible, one effectively loses the ability to repair the device how they wish.
      - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Tesla also does not sell spares to general public. Yet, there are people who manage to fix them. There are always spares available.
        EpicEng 8y ago
        So? Whataboutism isn't a strong case. There are also FAR fewer Teslas out there than there are iPhones and iPads.
        rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Whataboutism, whataboutism. Major argument on HN to drop the conversation. It's a comparable example. You know, like a relevant case showing that things are possible without supplier support. Some people here behave like they are totally square headed. Do not deviate an inch away from an example or you get accused of whataboutism. Geez. > There are also FAR fewer Teslas out there than there are iPhones and iPads. Which ultimately makes sourcing iPhone / iPad parts even easier.
        JohnFen 8y ago
        > It's a comparable example. But irrelevant. That one entity is doing something bad in no way means that it's OK for another entity to do the same thing. Besides, the right to repair movement is not focusing on computer products. It's covering a wide variety of products, including Teslas and (perhaps the most egregious) farm equipment.
        rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Yeah, it‘s irrelevant because it in the negative context. If it was towards something positive, it would be then relevant. Seen so many examples of this here. But hey, I‘m doing „whataboutism“ again. Meh.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
- simongr3dal 8y ago
  They made that problem with the batteries for themselves. I have owned a couple of different mac laptops, and the ones from 2011 and earlier used to have a built in bracket on the battery that stabilised it and made it trivial to fasten and unfasten with screws. The brackets did not take up all that much space, but apparently it was worth it to them to save a few minutes in manufacturing and a few seconds in assembly and just use adhesives directly against the unibody for fastening and stabilising.
  - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
    But ultimately it does not stop those who want to try. I don‘t see a problem. Will this right to repair revocation put those who attempt in prison? What‘s the underlying problem. Look, I bought a new car. It comes with cameras in the bumper. It made replacing a damaged bumper inherently more difficult for an average Joe. It doesn't mean though that it is impossible to replace it without visiting an authorised service centre. Same logic.
    - orcasauce 8y ago
      The "spare" parts come from donor boards that are obtained via unsanctioned back channels. Authorized repair shops are generally not allowed to actually fix anything. Instead they tell you it can't be fixed, your data is gone, please buy a new device.
  - asdff 8y ago
    The 2011 ones were even easier than that. You pressed a lever then half the bottom case came off, exposing the hard drive and battery. The battery came off by just pulling a plastic tab, the hard drive had a couple screws iirc. The 2012 one that I'm typing on now requires unscrewing the bottom case, but still everything is right there behind a couple obvious screws and you can upgrade RAM/HDD/battery/replace disc drive with second hard drive in 20 minutes if you are working slow. I knew it was the beginning of the end when the 2013 macbook shipped with soldered RAM.

I don't think the GP meant that to be a problem. What I got from it was "even if safety concerns are legitimate, trained professionals often do the work." So the safety angle becomes even more silly.

rad_gruchalski 8y ago

For general public, I am not do sure. There‘s a reason why I‘m not attempting replacing the battery in my 2015 mbp or in an iphone. I just don‘t want to cause the damage but I can imagine random people not even waiting until the battery is fully discharged before going in.

EpicEng 8y ago
Yet there are any number of equally dangerous activities the average citizen can participate in if they like. There are 100 things in your home that can kill you if you decide to start fiddling. Why are Apple products any different? Why should Apple own the repair aspect? Does Maytag tell me that only a Maytag authorized repair shop is allowed to service my water heater?
- rad_gruchalski 8y ago
  But they are not. Go on ifixit, order parts and fix, if you wish. Why the downvoting. Heh.
  - EpicEng 8y ago
    This article is literally about Apple lobbying to make it harder for independent operations to repair their devices. They won't sell people parts. What does that say to you?
    - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
      Source them from places where such laws do not exist?
      - EpicEng 8y ago
        I said: >Why should Apple own the repair aspect? And received a response: >But they are [sic] not Whether or not you can work around Apple not shipping parts is irrelevant. They are actively trying to make it harder to source parts and fix your devices.
        rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        > Why should Apple own the repair aspect? I guess that would be relevant if they were trying to retrieve all spares back. Them not wanting make sourcing spares easier does not mean they own the repair aspect.
        dwaltrip 8y ago
        The difficulty of sourcing parts is _directly_ related to how much ownership one has over repairability. If the sourcing of parts becomes overly difficult or impossible, one effectively loses the ability to repair the device how they wish.
    - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
      Tesla also does not sell spares to general public. Yet, there are people who manage to fix them. There are always spares available.
      - EpicEng 8y ago
        So? Whataboutism isn't a strong case. There are also FAR fewer Teslas out there than there are iPhones and iPads.
        rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Whataboutism, whataboutism. Major argument on HN to drop the conversation. It's a comparable example. You know, like a relevant case showing that things are possible without supplier support. Some people here behave like they are totally square headed. Do not deviate an inch away from an example or you get accused of whataboutism. Geez. > There are also FAR fewer Teslas out there than there are iPhones and iPads. Which ultimately makes sourcing iPhone / iPad parts even easier.
        JohnFen 8y ago
        > It's a comparable example. But irrelevant. That one entity is doing something bad in no way means that it's OK for another entity to do the same thing. Besides, the right to repair movement is not focusing on computer products. It's covering a wide variety of products, including Teslas and (perhaps the most egregious) farm equipment.
        rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Yeah, it‘s irrelevant because it in the negative context. If it was towards something positive, it would be then relevant. Seen so many examples of this here. But hey, I‘m doing „whataboutism“ again. Meh.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
simongr3dal 8y ago
They made that problem with the batteries for themselves. I have owned a couple of different mac laptops, and the ones from 2011 and earlier used to have a built in bracket on the battery that stabilised it and made it trivial to fasten and unfasten with screws. The brackets did not take up all that much space, but apparently it was worth it to them to save a few minutes in manufacturing and a few seconds in assembly and just use adhesives directly against the unibody for fastening and stabilising.
- rad_gruchalski 8y ago
  But ultimately it does not stop those who want to try. I don‘t see a problem. Will this right to repair revocation put those who attempt in prison? What‘s the underlying problem. Look, I bought a new car. It comes with cameras in the bumper. It made replacing a damaged bumper inherently more difficult for an average Joe. It doesn't mean though that it is impossible to replace it without visiting an authorised service centre. Same logic.
  - orcasauce 8y ago
    The "spare" parts come from donor boards that are obtained via unsanctioned back channels. Authorized repair shops are generally not allowed to actually fix anything. Instead they tell you it can't be fixed, your data is gone, please buy a new device.
- asdff 8y ago
  The 2011 ones were even easier than that. You pressed a lever then half the bottom case came off, exposing the hard drive and battery. The battery came off by just pulling a plastic tab, the hard drive had a couple screws iirc. The 2012 one that I'm typing on now requires unscrewing the bottom case, but still everything is right there behind a couple obvious screws and you can upgrade RAM/HDD/battery/replace disc drive with second hard drive in 20 minutes if you are working slow. I knew it was the beginning of the end when the 2013 macbook shipped with soldered RAM.