4 ms·

So where‘s the problem? People who fix them are out there and spare parts are available.

EpicEng 8y ago
I don't think the GP meant that to be a problem. What I got from it was "even if safety concerns are legitimate, trained professionals often do the work." So the safety angle becomes even more silly.
- rad_gruchalski 8y ago
  For general public, I am not do sure. There‘s a reason why I‘m not attempting replacing the battery in my 2015 mbp or in an iphone. I just don‘t want to cause the damage but I can imagine random people not even waiting until the battery is fully discharged before going in.
  - EpicEng 8y ago
    Yet there are any number of equally dangerous activities the average citizen can participate in if they like. There are 100 things in your home that can kill you if you decide to start fiddling. Why are Apple products any different? Why should Apple own the repair aspect? Does Maytag tell me that only a Maytag authorized repair shop is allowed to service my water heater?
    - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
      But they are not. Go on ifixit, order parts and fix, if you wish. Why the downvoting. Heh.
      - EpicEng 8y ago
        This article is literally about Apple lobbying to make it harder for independent operations to repair their devices. They won't sell people parts. What does that say to you?
        rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Source them from places where such laws do not exist?
        EpicEng 8y ago
        I said: >Why should Apple own the repair aspect? And received a response: >But they are [sic] not Whether or not you can work around Apple not shipping parts is irrelevant. They are actively trying to make it harder to source parts and fix your devices.
        rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        > Why should Apple own the repair aspect? I guess that would be relevant if they were trying to retrieve all spares back. Them not wanting make sourcing spares easier does not mean they own the repair aspect.
        dwaltrip 8y ago
        The difficulty of sourcing parts is _directly_ related to how much ownership one has over repairability. If the sourcing of parts becomes overly difficult or impossible, one effectively loses the ability to repair the device how they wish.
        rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Tesla also does not sell spares to general public. Yet, there are people who manage to fix them. There are always spares available.
        EpicEng 8y ago
        So? Whataboutism isn't a strong case. There are also FAR fewer Teslas out there than there are iPhones and iPads.
        8y ago
  - simongr3dal 8y ago
    They made that problem with the batteries for themselves. I have owned a couple of different mac laptops, and the ones from 2011 and earlier used to have a built in bracket on the battery that stabilised it and made it trivial to fasten and unfasten with screws. The brackets did not take up all that much space, but apparently it was worth it to them to save a few minutes in manufacturing and a few seconds in assembly and just use adhesives directly against the unibody for fastening and stabilising.
    - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
      But ultimately it does not stop those who want to try. I don‘t see a problem. Will this right to repair revocation put those who attempt in prison? What‘s the underlying problem. Look, I bought a new car. It comes with cameras in the bumper. It made replacing a damaged bumper inherently more difficult for an average Joe. It doesn't mean though that it is impossible to replace it without visiting an authorised service centre. Same logic.
      - orcasauce 8y ago
        The "spare" parts come from donor boards that are obtained via unsanctioned back channels. Authorized repair shops are generally not allowed to actually fix anything. Instead they tell you it can't be fixed, your data is gone, please buy a new device.
    - asdff 8y ago
      The 2011 ones were even easier than that. You pressed a lever then half the bottom case came off, exposing the hard drive and battery. The battery came off by just pulling a plastic tab, the hard drive had a couple screws iirc. The 2012 one that I'm typing on now requires unscrewing the bottom case, but still everything is right there behind a couple obvious screws and you can upgrade RAM/HDD/battery/replace disc drive with second hard drive in 20 minutes if you are working slow. I knew it was the beginning of the end when the 2013 macbook shipped with soldered RAM.
simion314 8y ago
The problem is that only Apple approved people can repair and can order parts. Keep in mind that there are not Apple stores in all locations around the world where there are plenty of third party repair shops.
- rad_gruchalski 8y ago
  Apple Store isn‘t the only place where things can be fixed. There are authorised service centres, like Gravis in Germany. And the parts? Just went to iFixit, they‘re all there to buy. I‘m sure anybody serious about fixing these things professionally can source the parts.
  - q3k 8y ago
    > And the parts? Just went to iFixit, they‘re all there to buy. I‘m sure anybody serious about fixing these things professionally can source the parts. You'd be surprised. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkPUoUJPJAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkPUoUJPJAQ
  - jabwork 8y ago
    Even Apple had the famous episode of releasing an update that bricked phones with replacement parts that weren't sanctioned. They reversed it after much public outcry. For less common hardware the situation is just as bad. Agriculture equipment has been a pain point for many to get repaired, as the parts are much harder to find and the limited number of certified repair shops can be pressured to stop servicing equipment deemed end of life by the manufacturer
  - unreal37 8y ago
    At least try to understand the issue, even if you don't agree. Maybe it's OK to you to live in a world where you car can only be repaired by the dealer. "No big deal!" A valid opinion. But that's fine until they want to charge you $2000 for something you can do yourself. Thank god the dealer will sell you the part and you can do that. Let me do it even if you don't want to.

I don't think the GP meant that to be a problem. What I got from it was "even if safety concerns are legitimate, trained professionals often do the work." So the safety angle becomes even more silly.

rad_gruchalski 8y ago
For general public, I am not do sure. There‘s a reason why I‘m not attempting replacing the battery in my 2015 mbp or in an iphone. I just don‘t want to cause the damage but I can imagine random people not even waiting until the battery is fully discharged before going in.
- EpicEng 8y ago
  Yet there are any number of equally dangerous activities the average citizen can participate in if they like. There are 100 things in your home that can kill you if you decide to start fiddling. Why are Apple products any different? Why should Apple own the repair aspect? Does Maytag tell me that only a Maytag authorized repair shop is allowed to service my water heater?
  - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
    But they are not. Go on ifixit, order parts and fix, if you wish. Why the downvoting. Heh.
    - EpicEng 8y ago
      This article is literally about Apple lobbying to make it harder for independent operations to repair their devices. They won't sell people parts. What does that say to you?
      - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Source them from places where such laws do not exist?
        EpicEng 8y ago
        I said: >Why should Apple own the repair aspect? And received a response: >But they are [sic] not Whether or not you can work around Apple not shipping parts is irrelevant. They are actively trying to make it harder to source parts and fix your devices.
        rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        > Why should Apple own the repair aspect? I guess that would be relevant if they were trying to retrieve all spares back. Them not wanting make sourcing spares easier does not mean they own the repair aspect.
        dwaltrip 8y ago
        The difficulty of sourcing parts is _directly_ related to how much ownership one has over repairability. If the sourcing of parts becomes overly difficult or impossible, one effectively loses the ability to repair the device how they wish.
      - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
        Tesla also does not sell spares to general public. Yet, there are people who manage to fix them. There are always spares available.
        EpicEng 8y ago
        So? Whataboutism isn't a strong case. There are also FAR fewer Teslas out there than there are iPhones and iPads.
        8y ago
- simongr3dal 8y ago
  They made that problem with the batteries for themselves. I have owned a couple of different mac laptops, and the ones from 2011 and earlier used to have a built in bracket on the battery that stabilised it and made it trivial to fasten and unfasten with screws. The brackets did not take up all that much space, but apparently it was worth it to them to save a few minutes in manufacturing and a few seconds in assembly and just use adhesives directly against the unibody for fastening and stabilising.
  - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
    But ultimately it does not stop those who want to try. I don‘t see a problem. Will this right to repair revocation put those who attempt in prison? What‘s the underlying problem. Look, I bought a new car. It comes with cameras in the bumper. It made replacing a damaged bumper inherently more difficult for an average Joe. It doesn't mean though that it is impossible to replace it without visiting an authorised service centre. Same logic.
    - orcasauce 8y ago
      The "spare" parts come from donor boards that are obtained via unsanctioned back channels. Authorized repair shops are generally not allowed to actually fix anything. Instead they tell you it can't be fixed, your data is gone, please buy a new device.
  - asdff 8y ago
    The 2011 ones were even easier than that. You pressed a lever then half the bottom case came off, exposing the hard drive and battery. The battery came off by just pulling a plastic tab, the hard drive had a couple screws iirc. The 2012 one that I'm typing on now requires unscrewing the bottom case, but still everything is right there behind a couple obvious screws and you can upgrade RAM/HDD/battery/replace disc drive with second hard drive in 20 minutes if you are working slow. I knew it was the beginning of the end when the 2013 macbook shipped with soldered RAM.

simion314 8y ago

The problem is that only Apple approved people can repair and can order parts. Keep in mind that there are not Apple stores in all locations around the world where there are plenty of third party repair shops.

rad_gruchalski 8y ago
Apple Store isn‘t the only place where things can be fixed. There are authorised service centres, like Gravis in Germany. And the parts? Just went to iFixit, they‘re all there to buy. I‘m sure anybody serious about fixing these things professionally can source the parts.
- q3k 8y ago
  > And the parts? Just went to iFixit, they‘re all there to buy. I‘m sure anybody serious about fixing these things professionally can source the parts. You'd be surprised. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkPUoUJPJAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkPUoUJPJAQ
- jabwork 8y ago
  Even Apple had the famous episode of releasing an update that bricked phones with replacement parts that weren't sanctioned. They reversed it after much public outcry. For less common hardware the situation is just as bad. Agriculture equipment has been a pain point for many to get repaired, as the parts are much harder to find and the limited number of certified repair shops can be pressured to stop servicing equipment deemed end of life by the manufacturer
- unreal37 8y ago
  At least try to understand the issue, even if you don't agree. Maybe it's OK to you to live in a world where you car can only be repaired by the dealer. "No big deal!" A valid opinion. But that's fine until they want to charge you $2000 for something you can do yourself. Thank god the dealer will sell you the part and you can do that. Let me do it even if you don't want to.