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I wonder how police behaviour would be influenced by refusing to hand over the data? Will they assign less resources to your case because they think you're unhe

I wonder how police behaviour would be influenced by refusing to hand over the data? Will they assign less resources to your case because they think you're unhelpful by not turning over your data?

DanBC 7y ago
Rape is already under-investigated and under-prosecuted in the UK, and we've seen numbers of prosecutions declining alarmingly after the cases that caused this new guidance to be issued. So we don't need to wonder, we know: police and CPS administratively close the case.
- Starknaked 7y ago
  So they're just assuming that the victims data will be their best lead? How about everyone just keeps a secondary dumb phone to hand over when they feel that the police request is unreasonable.
- belorn 7y ago
  Can you share the data that show the numbers of prosecutions declining per reported case, before and after the new guidance was issued? As a comparison, I am reminded of Swedish statistics. Both people being assaulted in the home and sexually assaulted shared the same clearing rate. If rape is under-investigated in the UK we should expect those data to look very different unless both crimes are under-investigated, in which case I must ask what the norm is for which the claim of under-investigated is based on.
  - DanBC 7y ago
    The claim for under-investigation comes from the fact that in English law rape is a very serious offence, and carries a similar sentence structure as murder. There are 150,000 rapes per year (according to the annual crime survey, which probably under-counts rape) and there are only 5,000 prosecutions each year. Here are the stats showing decline after the collapse of the high profile cases: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/datasets/sexualoffendingcrownprosecutionserviceappendixtables https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeand... Here are some news reports: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/06/prosecution-rate-in-england-and-wales-falls-to-five-year-low https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/06/prosecution-... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48095118 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48095118 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/crime-statistics-uk-justice-prosecution-rates-rape-victims-disclosure-police-funding-a8747191.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/crime-statistics... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45650463 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45650463
NullPrefix 7y ago
Obstruction of justice?
- Starknaked 7y ago
  If the victim has reason to belive their data would lead to a conviction the police wouldn't need to ask for it
  - hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
    This was spurred by the opposite - cases where the accuser's data led to complete exoneration and public apology.
mirimir 7y ago
TFA basically says that they won't work on the case unless the victim complies.
- Starknaked 7y ago
  Yes it also quotes the phrase “Police have a duty to pursue all reasonable lines of enquiry,”. Who's judging what's reasonable here? What stops them making requests victims would rightfully consider unreasonable so the police can just claim that the victim was uncooperative so it doesn't negatively impact police statistics?
  - mirimir 7y ago
    I guess that they're raised the bar on "cooperative". So if you've been the victim of a crime, you can't report it if there's any evidence of totally unrelated crimes. Say that you were raped, but had also ordered illegal drugs from your phone.

I wonder how police behaviour would be influenced by refusing to hand over the data? Will they assign less resources to your case because they think you're unhelpful by not turning over your data?

DanBC 7y ago

Rape is already under-investigated and under-prosecuted in the UK, and we've seen numbers of prosecutions declining alarmingly after the cases that caused this new guidance to be issued. So we don't need to wonder, we know: police and CPS administratively close the case.

Starknaked 7y ago
So they're just assuming that the victims data will be their best lead? How about everyone just keeps a secondary dumb phone to hand over when they feel that the police request is unreasonable.
belorn 7y ago
Can you share the data that show the numbers of prosecutions declining per reported case, before and after the new guidance was issued? As a comparison, I am reminded of Swedish statistics. Both people being assaulted in the home and sexually assaulted shared the same clearing rate. If rape is under-investigated in the UK we should expect those data to look very different unless both crimes are under-investigated, in which case I must ask what the norm is for which the claim of under-investigated is based on.
- DanBC 7y ago
  The claim for under-investigation comes from the fact that in English law rape is a very serious offence, and carries a similar sentence structure as murder. There are 150,000 rapes per year (according to the annual crime survey, which probably under-counts rape) and there are only 5,000 prosecutions each year. Here are the stats showing decline after the collapse of the high profile cases: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/datasets/sexualoffendingcrownprosecutionserviceappendixtables https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeand... Here are some news reports: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/06/prosecution-rate-in-england-and-wales-falls-to-five-year-low https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/06/prosecution-... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48095118 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48095118 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/crime-statistics-uk-justice-prosecution-rates-rape-victims-disclosure-police-funding-a8747191.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/crime-statistics... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45650463 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45650463

NullPrefix 7y ago

Obstruction of justice?

Starknaked 7y ago
If the victim has reason to belive their data would lead to a conviction the police wouldn't need to ask for it
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
  This was spurred by the opposite - cases where the accuser's data led to complete exoneration and public apology.

mirimir 7y ago

TFA basically says that they won't work on the case unless the victim complies.

Starknaked 7y ago
Yes it also quotes the phrase “Police have a duty to pursue all reasonable lines of enquiry,”. Who's judging what's reasonable here? What stops them making requests victims would rightfully consider unreasonable so the police can just claim that the victim was uncooperative so it doesn't negatively impact police statistics?
- mirimir 7y ago
  I guess that they're raised the bar on "cooperative". So if you've been the victim of a crime, you can't report it if there's any evidence of totally unrelated crimes. Say that you were raped, but had also ordered illegal drugs from your phone.