4 ms·

Isn't this just (literal) survivorship bias? I'd think that people that want to kill themselves very much would try again until they succeed, leaving only peopl

Isn't this just (literal) survivorship bias? I'd think that people that want to kill themselves very much would try again until they succeed, leaving only people who did not desire to die as strongly to report on how they felt about their failed attempt.

mikeash 7y ago
A failed suicide attempt at the bridge is still a traumatic event that puts you in the hospital. It will take some time before you have the opportunity to try again, and if you succeed, the fact that you failed in your previous attempt will be known to anyone doing a study.
intertextuality 7y ago
This would be true except that a large percentage of suicides are snap decisions in the moment, not planned out. For example, switching to natural gas from coal gas in the UK ended up dropping suicide rates in general.[0] I also read another study that looked at two similar bridges about a mile or so away from each other: 1 bridge was popular for suicides, and as such had guards put up. You'd think that those people would have just gone to the other bridge, but suicide rates declined in general. I can't find the source at the moment. [0]: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves-lives/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves...
DanBC 7y ago
> I'd think that people that want to kill themselves very much would try again until they succeed No, this is a myth. Clearly there are differences in suicidality. Some people self harm frequently and severely for years before dying. Other people experience "rapid onset despair" and make an attempt. Recovery is possible for both groups. Most people who attempt suicide do not make another attempt. There's probably some data in the English NCISH reports here: https://sites.manchester.ac.uk/ncish/ https://sites.manchester.ac.uk/ncish/ (Also, I'm not trying to police your language. Use whatever words you like. But if you're talking to suicide researchers you may want to avoid "sucessful" or "failed" suicide, and use "died by suicide" or "killed themselves" (both for the UK) or "completed suicide" for the US.)

mikeash 7y ago

A failed suicide attempt at the bridge is still a traumatic event that puts you in the hospital. It will take some time before you have the opportunity to try again, and if you succeed, the fact that you failed in your previous attempt will be known to anyone doing a study.

intertextuality 7y ago

This would be true except that a large percentage of suicides are snap decisions in the moment, not planned out. For example, switching to natural gas from coal gas in the UK ended up dropping suicide rates in general.[0] I also read another study that looked at two similar bridges about a mile or so away from each other: 1 bridge was popular for suicides, and as such had guards put up. You'd think that those people would have just gone to the other bridge, but suicide rates declined in general. I can't find the source at the moment. [0]: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves-lives/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves...

DanBC 7y ago

> I'd think that people that want to kill themselves very much would try again until they succeed No, this is a myth. Clearly there are differences in suicidality. Some people self harm frequently and severely for years before dying. Other people experience "rapid onset despair" and make an attempt. Recovery is possible for both groups. Most people who attempt suicide do not make another attempt. There's probably some data in the English NCISH reports here: https://sites.manchester.ac.uk/ncish/ https://sites.manchester.ac.uk/ncish/ (Also, I'm not trying to police your language. Use whatever words you like. But if you're talking to suicide researchers you may want to avoid "sucessful" or "failed" suicide, and use "died by suicide" or "killed themselves" (both for the UK) or "completed suicide" for the US.)