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The article states "Researchers warn that their study could not prove causation.". What about Romeo and Juliet? What about the Bible ( Jesus )? What about Socr

The article states "Researchers warn that their study could not prove causation.". What about Romeo and Juliet? What about the Bible ( Jesus )? What about Socrates? Our cultural icons committed suicide. And if this show was funded Disney or NBC rather than Netflix, would we even have this study? The 10-19 population in the US is about 42 million. And there was suicide increase of 195. Even if the study was true and all 195 committed suicide because of the show, should we stop the 42 million who didn't commit suicide from watching it? I'm so disappointed at the comments here. Every single time, it seems like it's the "won't you think of the children" nanny state crowd supporting censorship. It's strange that art is being attacked and free expression. Which is odd since the same people denouncing this show here are the same ones who attacked the study linking shows with transgender themes and increase in transgender association ( especially amongst young girls ). So we do simply block everything anyone can say is bad for a small segment of the population? Even more, do we stop the news from talking about it because doesn't the media coverage of suicide also increase suicides? Should media be banned from coverage suicide of celebrities? How much of the increase in suicide was a result of media coverage over the show? Once again, is it because the demographics skews so old here? I just can't understand the shortsighted support for censorship here. How can someone be on "hacker" news and have a "nanny state" mindset.

scott_s 7y ago
> Even more, do we stop the news from talking about it because doesn't the media coverage of suicide also increase suicides? Responsible media already is careful about how they discuss suicide for exactly this reason. One of the major problems with the series is that the people behind it did not understand the area they were venturing into. They thought that creating a topic for discussion was helpful. They were wrong, and by what I read, could not understand why. They did not listen to experts in the area for how to do that responsibly.
camjohnson26 7y ago
I think most of the comments are saying that the show’s producers should have self-censored since the show was targeted to the same people who could be driven to suicidal ideation by it. They’re not talking about banning the speech, they’re holding the creators responsible for the effects of the speech. The law gives you the freedom to promote racism for example, but just because it’s legal doesn’t free you from responsibility. People are still going to condemn you and that doesn’t necessarily mean they think what you did should be illegal.
crististm 7y ago
For me, this comment is all over the place. For which point do you expect a debate?
DanBC 7y ago
You keep using the word "banned", but people who work in suicide prevention aren't calling for bans on all coverage of suicide. They're calling for responsible coverage.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  That sounds like sematics.
empath75 7y ago
I think people are suggesting only that if you make media about suicide, you need to be thoughtful about how you market it and present it, if you care about not triggering suicides.
nathan_long 7y ago
> What about Romeo and Juliet? What about the Bible ( Jesus )? What about Socrates? Our cultural icons committed suicide. Jesus didn't commit suicide; sacrificing yourself for others is quite different from deciding you don't want to live anymore. As to your other two examples, what of them? Maybe reading Romeo and Juliet is an unhealthy thing for depressed people to do. Has anybody studied that? "[New thing] can't be bad because [old thing like it] exists" isn't an argument. It's also possible that watching a movie that's entirely about suicide, with dramatic music and visuals, has more of an emotional effect than reading a play that includes suicide. > So we do simply block everything anyone can say is bad for a small segment of the population? I wouldn't say "let's use the law to censor this". But I wouldn't celebrate, promote, or support it, either.
krychu 7y ago
How did Jesus commit suicide?
564d2d56 7y ago
> the study linking shows with transgender themes and increase in transgender association ( especially amongst young girls ). Do you have a relevant HN thread/source for this? Just curious and can't seem to find it.
tntn 7y ago
> what about the Bible (Jesus)? Erm, what? > what about Socrates? Erm, what?
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  Jesus, arguably, could have chosen not to die for humanits sins or whatever. If his choice to die for our sins was indeed a choice, is it not noble suicide? Or is it meaningless other than his suvvering because he is immortal as well? Socrates chose to stick to 'the truth' and be found guilty rather than argue his way out disingenously. Another arguably suicidal martyrs death. Is suicide by cop suicide might be the better question in both cases.
apo 7y ago
Jesus' death as a suicide... Interesting idea. By that measure, anyone considered a martyr could also be considered to have committed suicide. Jesus presumably knew the outcome of his time on earth ahead of time. He was well aware of the approximate time he'd be killed. Evidence from the Bible clearly shows Jesus had superhuman powers and so it's likely he could have at least escaped his executioners. And yet he chose the path that lead to death. Is that suicide? For that matter, did Jesus have a choice? God commanded Abraham to kill his own son. Did Abraham's son have any choice in the matter? If not, why do we assume Jesus had free agency?
brlewis 7y ago
>What about Romeo and Juliet? Do you think fictional depictions of obviously-mistaken suicides will increase suicide? >What about the Bible ( Jesus )? What about Socrates? Do you think examples of convicts who did not resist their death sentences will increase suicide? >nanny state crowd supporting censorship If criticism is censorship, then your comment is censorship of other comments.

scott_s 7y ago

> Even more, do we stop the news from talking about it because doesn't the media coverage of suicide also increase suicides? Responsible media already is careful about how they discuss suicide for exactly this reason. One of the major problems with the series is that the people behind it did not understand the area they were venturing into. They thought that creating a topic for discussion was helpful. They were wrong, and by what I read, could not understand why. They did not listen to experts in the area for how to do that responsibly.

camjohnson26 7y ago

I think most of the comments are saying that the show’s producers should have self-censored since the show was targeted to the same people who could be driven to suicidal ideation by it. They’re not talking about banning the speech, they’re holding the creators responsible for the effects of the speech. The law gives you the freedom to promote racism for example, but just because it’s legal doesn’t free you from responsibility. People are still going to condemn you and that doesn’t necessarily mean they think what you did should be illegal.

crististm 7y ago

For me, this comment is all over the place. For which point do you expect a debate?

DanBC 7y ago

You keep using the word "banned", but people who work in suicide prevention aren't calling for bans on all coverage of suicide. They're calling for responsible coverage.

whenchamenia 7y ago
That sounds like sematics.

empath75 7y ago

I think people are suggesting only that if you make media about suicide, you need to be thoughtful about how you market it and present it, if you care about not triggering suicides.

nathan_long 7y ago

> What about Romeo and Juliet? What about the Bible ( Jesus )? What about Socrates? Our cultural icons committed suicide. Jesus didn't commit suicide; sacrificing yourself for others is quite different from deciding you don't want to live anymore. As to your other two examples, what of them? Maybe reading Romeo and Juliet is an unhealthy thing for depressed people to do. Has anybody studied that? "[New thing] can't be bad because [old thing like it] exists" isn't an argument. It's also possible that watching a movie that's entirely about suicide, with dramatic music and visuals, has more of an emotional effect than reading a play that includes suicide. > So we do simply block everything anyone can say is bad for a small segment of the population? I wouldn't say "let's use the law to censor this". But I wouldn't celebrate, promote, or support it, either.

krychu 7y ago

How did Jesus commit suicide?

564d2d56 7y ago

> the study linking shows with transgender themes and increase in transgender association ( especially amongst young girls ). Do you have a relevant HN thread/source for this? Just curious and can't seem to find it.

tntn 7y ago

> what about the Bible (Jesus)? Erm, what? > what about Socrates? Erm, what?

whenchamenia 7y ago
Jesus, arguably, could have chosen not to die for humanits sins or whatever. If his choice to die for our sins was indeed a choice, is it not noble suicide? Or is it meaningless other than his suvvering because he is immortal as well? Socrates chose to stick to 'the truth' and be found guilty rather than argue his way out disingenously. Another arguably suicidal martyrs death. Is suicide by cop suicide might be the better question in both cases.

apo 7y ago

Jesus' death as a suicide... Interesting idea. By that measure, anyone considered a martyr could also be considered to have committed suicide. Jesus presumably knew the outcome of his time on earth ahead of time. He was well aware of the approximate time he'd be killed. Evidence from the Bible clearly shows Jesus had superhuman powers and so it's likely he could have at least escaped his executioners. And yet he chose the path that lead to death. Is that suicide? For that matter, did Jesus have a choice? God commanded Abraham to kill his own son. Did Abraham's son have any choice in the matter? If not, why do we assume Jesus had free agency?

brlewis 7y ago

>What about Romeo and Juliet? Do you think fictional depictions of obviously-mistaken suicides will increase suicide? >What about the Bible ( Jesus )? What about Socrates? Do you think examples of convicts who did not resist their death sentences will increase suicide? >nanny state crowd supporting censorship If criticism is censorship, then your comment is censorship of other comments.