4 ms·

> but I'm not ready to relocate to the US Even if you wanted to, it's nearly impossible to immigrate to the US as a skilled worker legally. I have a friend wh

> but I'm not ready to relocate to the US Even if you wanted to, it's nearly impossible to immigrate to the US as a skilled worker legally. I have a friend who is an really talented programmer (and a really diligent worker) who studied Computer Science at some of the best universities in Europe: École Centrale Paris and the EPFL (École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne) in Switzerland. One of his biggest desires for a while was to move to the US, and live and work in New York. He spent more than 2 years trying to the US, and then gave up. He had even hesitated buying too much furniture while in France, because he was anticipating being able to move to the US. The only viable option to move to the US for most people in your (and his) situation would be the H-1B visa, which is extraordinarily difficult to get, and requires a miracle to obtain. You need to: (1) have a bachelor's degree that's related to the field you want to work in -- e.g. Computer Science degree for software development work, (2) find a company that's willing to offer you a job that pay at least what Americans make doing the same job, (3) the company must be willing to wait 7-8 months, (4) you need to win a lottery in which your odds of success are about 1 in 3. (1) and (2) are not too difficult. (3) is quite difficult -- the majority companies do not want to wait for 7-8 months for you to join. And (4) is completely up to chance, and out of your control. (By the way, this lottery is conducted at the beginning of April every year, and you can only start working in October. My friend fulfilled criteria (1), (2), and the difficult (3). But he did not get selected in the H-1B lottery two years in a row. The US is essentially a closed country when it comes to skilled immigration. Most of the immigrants who get green cards here are family members, refugees/asylees, and diversity lottery winners. Getting even temporary permission to work in the U.S. as a educated/skilled person requires a miracle from God.

sametmax 8y ago
I know at least 3 french persons that managed to make it work. They don't even work for a FAANGs, and only of of them is technically better than I am. I'm an optimist :)
- winter_blue 8y ago
  Could you ask them on what visa they moved to the U.S.? I know a few French people in New York. But they're on J-1 visas -- which are very short in duration (~1 year), and truly temporary -- you are required to have plans to return to your "home country" after that period. It offers no practical path towards permanent residence. The only visas that don't prohibit immigrant intent (i.e. desire to immigrate + company applying for permanent residence for you) are the H-1B visa, L-1 visa, and O-1 visa. For anyone looking to permanently move the U.S. on the basis of skills, those are the only options. (I didn't mention the L-1 and O-1 in my comment above because they're even more narrowly granted.) > only of of them is technically better Technical skill doesn't really matter with the H-1B visa; only salary really does. Even going to a top university doesn't mean anything. The lottery doesn't discriminate. There are foreign students who graduate from the best universities in the U.S. like Harvard, Yale, MIT, etc, often with advanced degrees (Master's / PhD), with good high-paying jobs, who get deported from the US because they did not win the H-1B lottery. The Harvard Crimson complained about this even back in 2007: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/9/raise-the-h-1b-cap-many-members/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/9/raise-the-h-1b-c...
  - sametmax 8y ago
    I'll check with them if I work in their team again.
Thaxll 8y ago
If you're European from a "good" country it's pretty easy to get an H1-B with a master / eng degree to work for a SV company.
- winter_blue 8y ago
  Your country of citizenship or birth plays zero role in terms of getting an H-1B visa. It neither helps nor hurts. And it's certainly not "pretty easy" to get an H-1B in any sense. For example, right now, if you wanted to work in the U.S. the earliest date you could start working would be October 1, 2020. (That's because this year's lottery is already over, you'll have to try your shot with the April 2020 lottery, and you can only start working 6 months after that at the earliest.) There might be racial prejudices in terms of getting a job, where being a European helps, but even that's extremely unlikely in Silicon Valley. Most U.S. tech companies are concentrated in progressive (Democratic party voting) regions -- and most people in these regions are emphatically not racists, and many often go the extra mile and make a conscious effort to deal with any subconscious racism in their minds. So don't expect being European or white to help that much. The government certainly doesn't care what country you're from, and what your skin color is, when it comes to approving H-1Bs -- at least there hasn't been any evidence to the contrary. The vast majority of H-1B visas go to people from India and China, of which the majority go to people from India. ---- Also regarding L-1 visas: Getting a job at a FAANG or a large multi-national company with offices in the U.S. and Europe/elsewhere, and that's willing to relocate you is not easy. If you're a valuable contributing member of your team, I doubt your manager would be jumping with job at the idea of you being transferred to the US. Getting an L-1 visa requires not just a degree and 1 year of work experience with the company, it also requires "specialized knowledge". Lookup the definition. There have been denials on the basis of this "specialized knowledge" requirement. Furthermore, it's unpleasant to be in the U.S. on the L-1 because you have no way to change jobs (unlike the H-1B) and lose legal status as soon as you're fired. I had a family member who after many years in the US on the L-1A (managerial) visa, had to suddenly pack up and leave the US. The company held off on applying for an EB-1 green card until the L-1A was nearing its 7-year limit, and then for unrelated financial reasons this company shut down overnight. Everyone was laid off, including US staff. So you need a company that's nice enough to apply for your H-1B every year (knowing that it'll give you the freedom to change jobs as you wish), and one that's willing to relocate (at a loss to the team in your original country).
dbancajas 8y ago
You forgot other loopholes: 1. Get F1-visa and do MS. 2. Marry a US citizen 3. use a J1 visa?
- qaq 8y ago
  You can join EU office of the company and get transferred via L1.
- winter_blue 8y ago
  > 3. use a J1 visa? I've addressed this in this sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19789172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19789172 > 1. Get F1-visa People that study here also have to go through the H-1B lottery, like everyone else. Graduates with MS/PhD have a slightly higher probability of winning the H-1B lottery, but it's like 0.5 for US MS/PhD versus 0.3 for everyone else. You are still forced to go through a lottery. (One thing is you get to work in the US for a 1-3 years with an F-1 visa under a program called OPT.) There are many graduates with Masters and PhD degrees from American universities (incl. highly-ranked ones), who have well-paying jobs (under F-1 OPT), who lose the H-1B lottery, and as a result, employers are forced to fire them, and they have to leave the country (under the threat of forcible deportation and being banned from the US). This is the reality of US immigration today, and it's been like this for a long time. For example, here's a Harvard Crimson article from back in 2007 arguing for increasing or eliminating the H-1B limit: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/9/raise-the-h-1b-cap-many-members/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/9/raise-the-h-1b-c... > 2. Marry a US citizen Marrying someone for the purpose is immigration is considered "immigration fraud", and if they find out, you will be deported and permanently banned from the US. If you became a U.S. citizen through such a marriage, your citizenship can and will be revoked, and you could even be rendered stateless as a result. If the currently conservative U.S. Supreme Court overturns Zadvydas v. Davis[1], you could spend the rest of your life in prison. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zadvydas_v._Davis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zadvydas_v._Davis
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Marrying someone for the purpose is immigration is considered "immigration fraud" No, it's not; Marrying someone for the purpose of evading immigration laws is. There is a difference; even if immigration is sought as a benefit of marriage, if there is genuine intent to enter into and maintain a bona fide marital relationship and that is maintained throughout the conditional period associated with immigration by marriage, there is no fraud.
random42_ 8y ago
(1) You don't need to have a degree to apply for an H1B as long as you can prove 3 years of experience to each year of college. So, if you are a developer with 12 years of experience that makes up for the lack of a 4-years degree. You can also combine years of college with experience to complete that requirement. Say, 2 years of college plus 6 years of experience. (2) the salary must follow the prevailing wages in the area the employee is gonna work. That's not really an absurd thing specially considering that the market rates are usually higher than the prevailing wages. (3) what I have seen about this point is that companies will usually find a way around that if they're really willing to hire you. Either work remotely as a contractor until the visa is stamped and you can move or something else. It's hard but not impossible. (4) is really up to chance and I've had friends who were and were not selected. I'd say it's hard but no miracles needed.
ThePawnBreak 8y ago
> Even if you wanted to, it's nearly impossible to immigrate to the US as a skilled worker legally. Nearly impossible? Come on, this is a gross exaggeration. Get a job at a FAANG or unicorn in Europe, work there for 1 - 2 years, transfer to the US on an L1 visa, then apply for H1B each year until you get it. I know several people who have done this. Hell, Microsoft opened an office in Vancouver specifically to move failed H1B's there until they can get an L1.

sametmax 8y ago

I know at least 3 french persons that managed to make it work. They don't even work for a FAANGs, and only of of them is technically better than I am. I'm an optimist :)

winter_blue 8y ago
Could you ask them on what visa they moved to the U.S.? I know a few French people in New York. But they're on J-1 visas -- which are very short in duration (~1 year), and truly temporary -- you are required to have plans to return to your "home country" after that period. It offers no practical path towards permanent residence. The only visas that don't prohibit immigrant intent (i.e. desire to immigrate + company applying for permanent residence for you) are the H-1B visa, L-1 visa, and O-1 visa. For anyone looking to permanently move the U.S. on the basis of skills, those are the only options. (I didn't mention the L-1 and O-1 in my comment above because they're even more narrowly granted.) > only of of them is technically better Technical skill doesn't really matter with the H-1B visa; only salary really does. Even going to a top university doesn't mean anything. The lottery doesn't discriminate. There are foreign students who graduate from the best universities in the U.S. like Harvard, Yale, MIT, etc, often with advanced degrees (Master's / PhD), with good high-paying jobs, who get deported from the US because they did not win the H-1B lottery. The Harvard Crimson complained about this even back in 2007: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/9/raise-the-h-1b-cap-many-members/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/9/raise-the-h-1b-c...
- sametmax 8y ago
  I'll check with them if I work in their team again.

Thaxll 8y ago

If you're European from a "good" country it's pretty easy to get an H1-B with a master / eng degree to work for a SV company.

winter_blue 8y ago
Your country of citizenship or birth plays zero role in terms of getting an H-1B visa. It neither helps nor hurts. And it's certainly not "pretty easy" to get an H-1B in any sense. For example, right now, if you wanted to work in the U.S. the earliest date you could start working would be October 1, 2020. (That's because this year's lottery is already over, you'll have to try your shot with the April 2020 lottery, and you can only start working 6 months after that at the earliest.) There might be racial prejudices in terms of getting a job, where being a European helps, but even that's extremely unlikely in Silicon Valley. Most U.S. tech companies are concentrated in progressive (Democratic party voting) regions -- and most people in these regions are emphatically not racists, and many often go the extra mile and make a conscious effort to deal with any subconscious racism in their minds. So don't expect being European or white to help that much. The government certainly doesn't care what country you're from, and what your skin color is, when it comes to approving H-1Bs -- at least there hasn't been any evidence to the contrary. The vast majority of H-1B visas go to people from India and China, of which the majority go to people from India. ---- Also regarding L-1 visas: Getting a job at a FAANG or a large multi-national company with offices in the U.S. and Europe/elsewhere, and that's willing to relocate you is not easy. If you're a valuable contributing member of your team, I doubt your manager would be jumping with job at the idea of you being transferred to the US. Getting an L-1 visa requires not just a degree and 1 year of work experience with the company, it also requires "specialized knowledge". Lookup the definition. There have been denials on the basis of this "specialized knowledge" requirement. Furthermore, it's unpleasant to be in the U.S. on the L-1 because you have no way to change jobs (unlike the H-1B) and lose legal status as soon as you're fired. I had a family member who after many years in the US on the L-1A (managerial) visa, had to suddenly pack up and leave the US. The company held off on applying for an EB-1 green card until the L-1A was nearing its 7-year limit, and then for unrelated financial reasons this company shut down overnight. Everyone was laid off, including US staff. So you need a company that's nice enough to apply for your H-1B every year (knowing that it'll give you the freedom to change jobs as you wish), and one that's willing to relocate (at a loss to the team in your original country).

dbancajas 8y ago

You forgot other loopholes: 1. Get F1-visa and do MS. 2. Marry a US citizen 3. use a J1 visa?

qaq 8y ago
You can join EU office of the company and get transferred via L1.
winter_blue 8y ago
> 3. use a J1 visa? I've addressed this in this sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19789172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19789172 > 1. Get F1-visa People that study here also have to go through the H-1B lottery, like everyone else. Graduates with MS/PhD have a slightly higher probability of winning the H-1B lottery, but it's like 0.5 for US MS/PhD versus 0.3 for everyone else. You are still forced to go through a lottery. (One thing is you get to work in the US for a 1-3 years with an F-1 visa under a program called OPT.) There are many graduates with Masters and PhD degrees from American universities (incl. highly-ranked ones), who have well-paying jobs (under F-1 OPT), who lose the H-1B lottery, and as a result, employers are forced to fire them, and they have to leave the country (under the threat of forcible deportation and being banned from the US). This is the reality of US immigration today, and it's been like this for a long time. For example, here's a Harvard Crimson article from back in 2007 arguing for increasing or eliminating the H-1B limit: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/9/raise-the-h-1b-cap-many-members/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/9/raise-the-h-1b-c... > 2. Marry a US citizen Marrying someone for the purpose is immigration is considered "immigration fraud", and if they find out, you will be deported and permanently banned from the US. If you became a U.S. citizen through such a marriage, your citizenship can and will be revoked, and you could even be rendered stateless as a result. If the currently conservative U.S. Supreme Court overturns Zadvydas v. Davis[1], you could spend the rest of your life in prison. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zadvydas_v._Davis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zadvydas_v._Davis
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Marrying someone for the purpose is immigration is considered "immigration fraud" No, it's not; Marrying someone for the purpose of evading immigration laws is. There is a difference; even if immigration is sought as a benefit of marriage, if there is genuine intent to enter into and maintain a bona fide marital relationship and that is maintained throughout the conditional period associated with immigration by marriage, there is no fraud.

random42_ 8y ago

(1) You don't need to have a degree to apply for an H1B as long as you can prove 3 years of experience to each year of college. So, if you are a developer with 12 years of experience that makes up for the lack of a 4-years degree. You can also combine years of college with experience to complete that requirement. Say, 2 years of college plus 6 years of experience. (2) the salary must follow the prevailing wages in the area the employee is gonna work. That's not really an absurd thing specially considering that the market rates are usually higher than the prevailing wages. (3) what I have seen about this point is that companies will usually find a way around that if they're really willing to hire you. Either work remotely as a contractor until the visa is stamped and you can move or something else. It's hard but not impossible. (4) is really up to chance and I've had friends who were and were not selected. I'd say it's hard but no miracles needed.

ThePawnBreak 8y ago

> Even if you wanted to, it's nearly impossible to immigrate to the US as a skilled worker legally. Nearly impossible? Come on, this is a gross exaggeration. Get a job at a FAANG or unicorn in Europe, work there for 1 - 2 years, transfer to the US on an L1 visa, then apply for H1B each year until you get it. I know several people who have done this. Hell, Microsoft opened an office in Vancouver specifically to move failed H1B's there until they can get an L1.