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> True, but whataboutism like that only carries any weight at all because the US has been the most warlike nation since WWII. Not really. Russia was de facto

> True, but whataboutism like that only carries any weight at all because the US has been the most warlike nation since WWII. Not really. Russia was de facto involved in many of those conflicts (e.g. supplying fighters and pilots to North Korea during the Korean war to fight the UN), and had many of its own (e.g. the invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia, to name a few).

inflatableDodo 7y ago
I'm not defending Russia, or whataboutism. Is the international politics version of, 'yeah, but what are you'. All I am pointing out is that the US government would carry greater moral weight when lecturing others if it didn't keep invading places and propping up dictators. Also, the overall problems we are dealing with as humans are systemic and not specific to one country, so if trying to solve them, pointing fingers at others just does not really help. The current situation with Trump, for instance, is an interesting reflection of the installation of Yeltsin.
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  > All I am pointing out is that the US government would carry greater moral weight when lecturing others if it didn't keep invading places and propping up dictators. I don't think that's actually true. If you're of the mind that you're going to find fault in the messenger to ignore/distract from the message, you're going to find some fault regardless of how well the messenger behaves (and the fault you choose does not have to be related to the topic at hand).
  - inflatableDodo 7y ago
    >I don't think that's actually true. Really? >If you're of the mind that you're going to find fault in the messenger to ignore/distract from the message, you're going to find some fault regardless of how well the messenger behaves Yes, but the mud sticks a lot better if it is made of fresh shit. To only regard the people bickering is a mistake. Is the people watching you have to really consider.
    - CharlesColeman 7y ago
      > Yes, but the mud sticks a lot better if it is made of fresh shit. Unfortunately, mud sticks well enough even if it isn't real, so I really don't think that's much of a concern. >> All I am pointing out is that the US government would carry greater moral weight when lecturing others if it didn't keep invading places and propping up dictators. Do you think anyone affected or with influence would give greater credence to US "lectures" if it had never invaded anyplace?
      - inflatableDodo 7y ago
        I think the USA had a ton of political goodwill after WWII that it has since then burned for money and now has very little left. The USA does have a lot of money and weapons, so people fear it politically, but it no longer commands much respect.
        CharlesColeman 7y ago
        > I think the USA had a ton of political goodwill after WWII that it has since then burned for money and now has very little left. Maybe so, but it didn't do anything to stop the Berlin Blockade or the invasion of South Korea.

inflatableDodo 7y ago

I'm not defending Russia, or whataboutism. Is the international politics version of, 'yeah, but what are you'. All I am pointing out is that the US government would carry greater moral weight when lecturing others if it didn't keep invading places and propping up dictators. Also, the overall problems we are dealing with as humans are systemic and not specific to one country, so if trying to solve them, pointing fingers at others just does not really help. The current situation with Trump, for instance, is an interesting reflection of the installation of Yeltsin.

CharlesColeman 7y ago
> All I am pointing out is that the US government would carry greater moral weight when lecturing others if it didn't keep invading places and propping up dictators. I don't think that's actually true. If you're of the mind that you're going to find fault in the messenger to ignore/distract from the message, you're going to find some fault regardless of how well the messenger behaves (and the fault you choose does not have to be related to the topic at hand).
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  >I don't think that's actually true. Really? >If you're of the mind that you're going to find fault in the messenger to ignore/distract from the message, you're going to find some fault regardless of how well the messenger behaves Yes, but the mud sticks a lot better if it is made of fresh shit. To only regard the people bickering is a mistake. Is the people watching you have to really consider.
  - CharlesColeman 7y ago
    > Yes, but the mud sticks a lot better if it is made of fresh shit. Unfortunately, mud sticks well enough even if it isn't real, so I really don't think that's much of a concern. >> All I am pointing out is that the US government would carry greater moral weight when lecturing others if it didn't keep invading places and propping up dictators. Do you think anyone affected or with influence would give greater credence to US "lectures" if it had never invaded anyplace?
    - inflatableDodo 7y ago
      I think the USA had a ton of political goodwill after WWII that it has since then burned for money and now has very little left. The USA does have a lot of money and weapons, so people fear it politically, but it no longer commands much respect.
      - CharlesColeman 7y ago
        > I think the USA had a ton of political goodwill after WWII that it has since then burned for money and now has very little left. Maybe so, but it didn't do anything to stop the Berlin Blockade or the invasion of South Korea.