5 ms·

It can get a lot worse in states with onerous non-compete laws. When I quit Tudor Investment, they forced me to work for an extra 3 months. If I didn't, they

It can get a lot worse in states with onerous non-compete laws. When I quit Tudor Investment, they forced me to work for an extra 3 months. If I didn't, they threatened to fire me 'with cause' which under NY state law means they could enforce my non-compete without paying me. 1 week before I was supposed to leave, my manager tried to sandbag me with a list of 30 tasks so that he could force me to stay longer. So I terminated my employment using the 'right to work' clause and they carried out their threat, firing me after I legally quit (twice!). This kind of non-compete abuse is probably illegal but fighting it through arbitration would be expensive. Those assholes still owe me money in fact. Don't ever deal with the wage thieves at Tudor Investment.

sk5t 8y ago
Your state Department of Labor probably takes nonpayment of wages very seriously.
- CoolGuySteve 8y ago
  You're responsible for hiring a lawyer and suing the company if you make over $900/week, which probably every developer in NYC does. https://labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workprot/lshmpg.shtm https://labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workpro...
  - bonestamp2 8y ago
    Ouch. Hopefully you left a factful glassdoor review for the next person.
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      Likely this comment is worth 10 glassdoor reviews, and could alert others still working there as well to these practices.
      - bonestamp2 8y ago
        In content sure, but not in reach.
  - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
    This might be one argument in favor of having a union or guild for developers: pooling of funds to temporarily cover legal fees.
- olliej 8y ago
  Generally however they don’t become liable for the time you aren’t working because you’re dealing with them, and that ignores the actual up front costs in hiring a lawyer. A lot of this theft is targeted at people who literally cannot afford to make a claim, and for some reason you can’t just report the theft to the police.
colordrops 8y ago
Thank you for naming names. Most people with experiences like this keep everything anonymous, leaving other people to fall into the same trap.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
skohan 8y ago
This kind of thing makes me thankful to work in Europe
DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
> If I didn't, they threatened to fire me 'with cause' which under NY state law means they could enforce my non-compete without paying me. IANAL, but might that qualify as criminal extortion?
autotune 8y ago
Their glassdoor rating alone would keep me away!
Fjolsvith 8y ago
Why not quit by sending a certified return receipt letter? Then you could prove you quit first.
- CoolGuySteve 8y ago
  Why would it matter? I can already I prove I quit several times via email timestamps. Still doesn't mean I'll front the tens of thousands to sue.
  - brianpgordon 8y ago
    Wouldn't they have to sue you to enforce the noncompete? It would still be expensive to defend but the game theory would say at that point that they shouldn't sue you because it would cost them money to do so and there's no way they could win.
pnw_hazor 8y ago
In many states the non-compete remains in force whether you get quit or get fired.
MR4D 8y ago
I’m confused - why didn’t you have normal garden leave?
- CoolGuySteve 8y ago
  In NY state, if your employer terminates you with cause then garden leave is enforced but not paid. It's open to massive abuse, as I found out.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
basetop 8y ago
I've heard of companies forcing you to leave early for security reasons, but I've never heard of companies forcing you to stay. That's close to blackmail, but I suspect it would be difficult and expensive to prove in court. Sorry you had to go through that.
phendrenad2 8y ago
Man, I'd love to hear your story from the parallel universe where you got the threat in writing, quit, they fired you with cause, you talked to a lawyer and sued them for tons of damage. But knowing how employer-favoring the legal system is, I assume I'm just daydreaming now.
TheBobinator 8y ago
I'm going to say 2 things here that are going to be unpopular for the HN Community, but they need to be said. First, Non-Competes and Binding Arbitration are legal abhorrations that need to be avoided at all costs. Management is saying "You can't leave and the law doesn't exist here". Google's management, of all people, used these to sexually harass and assault their employee's. The only time signing one is advised is if you have a lawyer, that you trust and are paying, representing your interests, involved to ensure you get paid and there's no weasel words or wiggle room for game-playing. Ask them if the contract is negotiable and if you can go over it with your legal counsel; if the answer is no, you just confirmed you are walking into a company full of psychopaths that would sooner kill you and harvest your organs for a buck than treat you reasonably. There is literally no fine line or middle ground here; when these contracts are rolled out either they are negotiated in good faith or they are not. Second, a lot of people walk into those contracts on good faith, only to find the nightmare later on. Summarizing the situatuion; the Soap Box is done and over with, the Ballot Box is already empty, and the option for a Jury Box was taken away from you, which leaves only the Ammo Box. Prudent people will realize the only way out is to bankrupt the business and ownership through making a big mistake or error; They can't pay the arbiters if they are bankrupt and the contract terminates once they are liquidated. And remember, 90% of the reason those companes run like dogsh!t is because the staff there either have lost interest in their lives or are trying to take the place down to get out. And if that isn't an option , There's a reason we've got a 2nd amendment in this country and nobody did this in the 50's-80's after WW2 (Ex-Soldiers have zero patience for this crap). Remember we're a jury trial country, mob rule reigns supreme, and you get to pleade your case.

sk5t 8y ago

Your state Department of Labor probably takes nonpayment of wages very seriously.

CoolGuySteve 8y ago
You're responsible for hiring a lawyer and suing the company if you make over $900/week, which probably every developer in NYC does. https://labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workprot/lshmpg.shtm https://labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workpro...
- bonestamp2 8y ago
  Ouch. Hopefully you left a factful glassdoor review for the next person.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    Likely this comment is worth 10 glassdoor reviews, and could alert others still working there as well to these practices.
    - bonestamp2 8y ago
      In content sure, but not in reach.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  This might be one argument in favor of having a union or guild for developers: pooling of funds to temporarily cover legal fees.
olliej 8y ago
Generally however they don’t become liable for the time you aren’t working because you’re dealing with them, and that ignores the actual up front costs in hiring a lawyer. A lot of this theft is targeted at people who literally cannot afford to make a claim, and for some reason you can’t just report the theft to the police.

colordrops 8y ago

Thank you for naming names. Most people with experiences like this keep everything anonymous, leaving other people to fall into the same trap.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

skohan 8y ago

This kind of thing makes me thankful to work in Europe

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago

> If I didn't, they threatened to fire me 'with cause' which under NY state law means they could enforce my non-compete without paying me. IANAL, but might that qualify as criminal extortion?

autotune 8y ago

Their glassdoor rating alone would keep me away!

Fjolsvith 8y ago

Why not quit by sending a certified return receipt letter? Then you could prove you quit first.

CoolGuySteve 8y ago
Why would it matter? I can already I prove I quit several times via email timestamps. Still doesn't mean I'll front the tens of thousands to sue.
- brianpgordon 8y ago
  Wouldn't they have to sue you to enforce the noncompete? It would still be expensive to defend but the game theory would say at that point that they shouldn't sue you because it would cost them money to do so and there's no way they could win.

pnw_hazor 8y ago

In many states the non-compete remains in force whether you get quit or get fired.

MR4D 8y ago

I’m confused - why didn’t you have normal garden leave?

CoolGuySteve 8y ago
In NY state, if your employer terminates you with cause then garden leave is enforced but not paid. It's open to massive abuse, as I found out.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

basetop 8y ago

I've heard of companies forcing you to leave early for security reasons, but I've never heard of companies forcing you to stay. That's close to blackmail, but I suspect it would be difficult and expensive to prove in court. Sorry you had to go through that.

phendrenad2 8y ago

Man, I'd love to hear your story from the parallel universe where you got the threat in writing, quit, they fired you with cause, you talked to a lawyer and sued them for tons of damage. But knowing how employer-favoring the legal system is, I assume I'm just daydreaming now.

TheBobinator 8y ago

I'm going to say 2 things here that are going to be unpopular for the HN Community, but they need to be said. First, Non-Competes and Binding Arbitration are legal abhorrations that need to be avoided at all costs. Management is saying "You can't leave and the law doesn't exist here". Google's management, of all people, used these to sexually harass and assault their employee's. The only time signing one is advised is if you have a lawyer, that you trust and are paying, representing your interests, involved to ensure you get paid and there's no weasel words or wiggle room for game-playing. Ask them if the contract is negotiable and if you can go over it with your legal counsel; if the answer is no, you just confirmed you are walking into a company full of psychopaths that would sooner kill you and harvest your organs for a buck than treat you reasonably. There is literally no fine line or middle ground here; when these contracts are rolled out either they are negotiated in good faith or they are not. Second, a lot of people walk into those contracts on good faith, only to find the nightmare later on. Summarizing the situatuion; the Soap Box is done and over with, the Ballot Box is already empty, and the option for a Jury Box was taken away from you, which leaves only the Ammo Box. Prudent people will realize the only way out is to bankrupt the business and ownership through making a big mistake or error; They can't pay the arbiters if they are bankrupt and the contract terminates once they are liquidated. And remember, 90% of the reason those companes run like dogsh!t is because the staff there either have lost interest in their lives or are trying to take the place down to get out. And if that isn't an option , There's a reason we've got a 2nd amendment in this country and nobody did this in the 50's-80's after WW2 (Ex-Soldiers have zero patience for this crap). Remember we're a jury trial country, mob rule reigns supreme, and you get to pleade your case.