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Funny. In Spain (and I'm sure other countries) you are owed severance pay and can claim unemployment benefits in case your employer fires you/laids you off, but

Funny. In Spain (and I'm sure other countries) you are owed severance pay and can claim unemployment benefits in case your employer fires you/laids you off, but not in case you resign on your own. Few employers would "fire" an employee resigning (also, "asking" to be fired is highly illegal), unless he/she were a very recent hire for which severance pay would be low.

lucozade 7y ago
In Europe, we don't really have the concept of at-will employment so an employer can't legally terminate your employment without a good reason. And resigning isn't usually classed as a good reason. I'm not sure about Spain, but in the UK there is a difference between being fired i.e. terminated with cause and laid off i.e. made redundant. In the former, I don't believe there's any requirement for severance. In the latter there is a statutory minimum severance. Also, if you're actually fired, your rights to unemployment benefits change. Usually some form of delay and/or reduction.
- DanBC 7y ago
  Isn't it a bit more complicated in England? An employee who's been working for the company for less than two years is fired for anything but reasons connected to protected characteristics doesn't have any recourse if they're fired. The employer doesn't need to give a reason.
  - rlpb 7y ago
    Citation please? I was under the impression that UK employers always need to give a (valid) reason. The only change at two years of which I'm aware is that this is the point at which redundancy payments (US: severence pay) starts to become due in case of redundancy.
    - roliver 7y ago
      Qualifying period to claim unfair dismissal at tribunal is 2 years: https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/what-to-do-if-youre-dismissed https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/what-to-do-if-youre-dismissed
      - rlpb 7y ago
        That doesn't necessarily legalise unfair dismissal for the employer though, does it?
chasedehan 7y ago
It’s common in the US to be asked to leave when you give notice. One place I worked had security escort people out of the building by the end of the day they gave notice. I also worked in restaurants through college and while you weren’t asked to leave, you were taken off the schedule and not given any shifts. (edit) The security walking out wasn't this big show of force, it was mostly to turn in laptop, badge, etc. Security was nice about it, but it was still security (end edit)
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  I don’t get the whole being walked out by security thing. It seems just an unnecessary show of force or humiliation without any benefit. If a person had wanted to do danger then they could have done that easily before putting in notice. It makes no sense.
  - Someone 7y ago
    Before the notice, they had a job with a company that paid them money that allowed them to pay the rent, food, hospital costs, etc. After it, they may worry want to pay next week’s groceries from.
    - maxxxxx 7y ago
      So a person is fine until the moment they give notice and immediately become a risk after handing it in? When I saw someone walked out it felt like a show of power by a police state that signaled “we can take anybody anytime and the only thing you can do is watch helplessly”. The procedure seems designed for humiliation and intimidation.
      - bluGill 7y ago
        In the cases I've seen it happen the person walked out was given their final two weeks pay. They just were not allowed back in the office.
        7y ago
bluGill 7y ago
In the US fired means for cause. When you are fired they are legally saying you are a bad employee and they can/will tell others not to hire you. This implies they can not give your severance because the time you "worked" for them without doing your job is your severance. You don't get unemployment because you were not actually working. Contrast this with laid off which means you were a good employee, they just don't need you anymore: you can get severance (if there is any, it is not required). If/when you employer is going to fire you ask if you can resign on the spot instead. Most will say yes: because you resigned of your own violation you cannot sue them, but in turn when someone checks references they will carefully say "yes s/he worked here, s/he left in good report, we have nothing more to say", which doesn't look bad.
- Cthulhu_ 7y ago
  In my country (Netherlands) there's some strict laws around firing; the situation you described (being a bad employee and getting fired on the spot) only applies for a few cases; refusal to work (without good reason, probably the most up for debate reason), theft, fraud, or severe incompetence. The other cases though require a more formal release procedure and compensation. However, to work around that some companies get up to some really scummy practices. Multinationals especially, they can just let a company go bankrupt so there's no way for employees to get anything.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    You are typically not fired on the spot in the US. The law allows it, but generally it only happens for the good reasons you listed. Most cases you are doing useful work, just "not enough", and the company will try to help you produce enough. If those attempts fail to work out they will fire you, but you should have seen it coming for months.
- garmaine 7y ago
  > You don't get unemployment because you were not actually working Nope. You have to get fired (with or without cause, doesn’t matter) to collect unemployment in most US jurisdictions.
mrweasel 7y ago
Similar in Denmark. I've had a co-workers that wanted to quit do to personal reasons. Our boss opted to fire him instead, so he be able to collect a severance pay (I think three month of pay).

lucozade 7y ago

In Europe, we don't really have the concept of at-will employment so an employer can't legally terminate your employment without a good reason. And resigning isn't usually classed as a good reason. I'm not sure about Spain, but in the UK there is a difference between being fired i.e. terminated with cause and laid off i.e. made redundant. In the former, I don't believe there's any requirement for severance. In the latter there is a statutory minimum severance. Also, if you're actually fired, your rights to unemployment benefits change. Usually some form of delay and/or reduction.

DanBC 7y ago
Isn't it a bit more complicated in England? An employee who's been working for the company for less than two years is fired for anything but reasons connected to protected characteristics doesn't have any recourse if they're fired. The employer doesn't need to give a reason.
- rlpb 7y ago
  Citation please? I was under the impression that UK employers always need to give a (valid) reason. The only change at two years of which I'm aware is that this is the point at which redundancy payments (US: severence pay) starts to become due in case of redundancy.
  - roliver 7y ago
    Qualifying period to claim unfair dismissal at tribunal is 2 years: https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/what-to-do-if-youre-dismissed https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/what-to-do-if-youre-dismissed
    - rlpb 7y ago
      That doesn't necessarily legalise unfair dismissal for the employer though, does it?

chasedehan 7y ago

It’s common in the US to be asked to leave when you give notice. One place I worked had security escort people out of the building by the end of the day they gave notice. I also worked in restaurants through college and while you weren’t asked to leave, you were taken off the schedule and not given any shifts. (edit) The security walking out wasn't this big show of force, it was mostly to turn in laptop, badge, etc. Security was nice about it, but it was still security (end edit)

maxxxxx 7y ago
I don’t get the whole being walked out by security thing. It seems just an unnecessary show of force or humiliation without any benefit. If a person had wanted to do danger then they could have done that easily before putting in notice. It makes no sense.
- Someone 7y ago
  Before the notice, they had a job with a company that paid them money that allowed them to pay the rent, food, hospital costs, etc. After it, they may worry want to pay next week’s groceries from.
  - maxxxxx 7y ago
    So a person is fine until the moment they give notice and immediately become a risk after handing it in? When I saw someone walked out it felt like a show of power by a police state that signaled “we can take anybody anytime and the only thing you can do is watch helplessly”. The procedure seems designed for humiliation and intimidation.
    - bluGill 7y ago
      In the cases I've seen it happen the person walked out was given their final two weeks pay. They just were not allowed back in the office.
      - 7y ago

bluGill 7y ago

In the US fired means for cause. When you are fired they are legally saying you are a bad employee and they can/will tell others not to hire you. This implies they can not give your severance because the time you "worked" for them without doing your job is your severance. You don't get unemployment because you were not actually working. Contrast this with laid off which means you were a good employee, they just don't need you anymore: you can get severance (if there is any, it is not required). If/when you employer is going to fire you ask if you can resign on the spot instead. Most will say yes: because you resigned of your own violation you cannot sue them, but in turn when someone checks references they will carefully say "yes s/he worked here, s/he left in good report, we have nothing more to say", which doesn't look bad.

Cthulhu_ 7y ago
In my country (Netherlands) there's some strict laws around firing; the situation you described (being a bad employee and getting fired on the spot) only applies for a few cases; refusal to work (without good reason, probably the most up for debate reason), theft, fraud, or severe incompetence. The other cases though require a more formal release procedure and compensation. However, to work around that some companies get up to some really scummy practices. Multinationals especially, they can just let a company go bankrupt so there's no way for employees to get anything.
- bluGill 7y ago
  You are typically not fired on the spot in the US. The law allows it, but generally it only happens for the good reasons you listed. Most cases you are doing useful work, just "not enough", and the company will try to help you produce enough. If those attempts fail to work out they will fire you, but you should have seen it coming for months.
garmaine 7y ago
> You don't get unemployment because you were not actually working Nope. You have to get fired (with or without cause, doesn’t matter) to collect unemployment in most US jurisdictions.

mrweasel 7y ago

Similar in Denmark. I've had a co-workers that wanted to quit do to personal reasons. Our boss opted to fire him instead, so he be able to collect a severance pay (I think three month of pay).