5 ms·

I think the plan is fairly simple: to clear his name by showing these absurd trumped-up charges for what they are, the machiavellian machinations of the US via

by msy 16y ago

bobds 16y ago
I read a good article on why the charges against Assange are absurd: http://rixstep.com/1/20101001,01.shtml http://rixstep.com/1/20101001,01.shtml And a more recent follow up: http://rixstep.com/1/20101202,01.shtml http://rixstep.com/1/20101202,01.shtml
- alextgordon 16y ago
  Is there a better source? I'm not sure I'm inclined to believe anything rixstep says.
  - bobds 16y ago
    I'm not inclined to believe anything regarding Wikileaks or Assange. I'm sure more than a few people have seen those tweets and some Twitter crawlers/indexers have them stored somewhere. We'll see how it plays out, no need to speculate at this point.
- elai 16y ago
  Wow, a conspiracy theory that would make sense. The US government finds the leak in may, knows wiki leaks has it. Knows that they'll not be able to directly attack the organization on free speech grounds so they create a character assignation plot and create a rape plot.
RuadhanMc 16y ago
Unless they actually charge him with something in Sweden -- which I believe is actually a requirement for this sort of warrant to be issued -- they won't be able to move him to Sweden. Hopefully sanity doesn't desert the British legal system as well.
- nagrom 16y ago
  Spoken by someone who doesn't know the British legal system well at all. The lack of sanity in the system is breathtakingly clear. We recently convicted someone for making a joke via Twitter, and he didn't have the resources of a government(s?) behind the conviction: http://heresycorner.blogspot.com/2010/11/with-conviction-of-paul-chambers-it-is.html http://heresycorner.blogspot.com/2010/11/with-conviction-of-... The British legal system is extremely thorough, but excrutiatingly slow. The problem with this approach to justice is that we tend hand people off to foreign governments and then it's too late to recall them. Lessons be will learned, no individual blame will be attached, and Assange will be ruined.
evgeny0 16y ago
If that is indeed his plan then he is incredibly naive.
- ugh 16y ago
  If I take the high-profile “rape” trials I know about as a guide (mere allegations, scant or no evidence, a hungry press and tons of lawyers) this could take a long, long while with much opportunity for Assange to say whatever he wants and a lot of pressure for all involved parties. It’s not as though Sweden can lock him up and throw away the keys. He is relatively safe in British or Swedish custody, if anything were to happen to him the respective governments would get massive problems and there would be no plausible deniability.
  - gst 16y ago
    "It’s not as though Sweden can lock him up and throw away the keys." Don't be too sure. To quote from the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/06/wikileaks-julian-assange-police http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/06/wikileaks-julian...): "Assange has also said that he declined to return to Sweden to face prosecutors because he feared he would not receive a fair trial, and prosecutors had requested that he be held in solitary confinement and incommunicado." The age of democracy is now officially over...
    - moxiemk1 16y ago
      Not only has there been nothing resembling an "age of democracy" in modern times, but Julian Assange doesn't stand for democracy in any way, shape, or form. He has indeed demonstrated that modern technology combined with antiquated practice can enable a single person to control our institutions for his own purposes. Not really sure how that got mistaken with democracy. Let's use our words carefully and precisely. Did you mean the "age of free speech"?
Udo 16y ago
I think the plan is fairly simple: to clear his name by showing these absurd trumped-up charges for what they are, the machiavellian machinations of the US via a disturbingly compliant Swedish legal system. I'm sorry, but there is simply _nothing_ he could ever say to them that would make those charges go away. How is the name clearing supposed to happen?
- tdoggette 16y ago
  Traditionally, by starting with "Not guilty, Your Honor," and going from there, but things might be different in Sweden.
  - Udo 16y ago
    AFAIK they already have statements to that effect, he made them earlier while he was still in the country.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      AFAIK, they have statements like that from the alleged victims... If that didn't make them drop the charges, I am not sure what would.
atomical 16y ago
How are they absurd and how do you have such intimate knowledge of this case?
nhangen 16y ago
I'm fairly certain that running from the law in this instance would do more harm than good to his cause. If he's not guilty, then he's got nothing to hide. The sooner he clears his name here the quicker he can go back to doing his thing. They would've found him anyway, so he's just complying with the inevitable.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  > If he's not guilty, then he's got nothing to hide. This assumes the other side plays fair. This assumes that the judge and jury will be rational. This assumes that it's really about sexual assault, and not about politics. Have you ever seen a rape trial? They're not known for being level-headed.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    When a rape trial starts out with something that is not a rape then 'level-headed' went out the window before the trial got started.
    - eru 16y ago
      Isn't the job of an x-trial to find out, whether x has happened?
      - jacquesm 16y ago
        Yes, normally it is. In this case the definition of 'rape' has apparently been stretched well beyond the breaking point, to where the victim will throw a party for the perp only to go to the police several days later after colluding with another victim. Let's just say that I find the charge sufficiently heavy that I would expect the bar for being charged with this crime to be considerably higher than what is seen so far. And that's totally besides my views on wikileaks, Julian Assange or anything else.
        philwelch 16y ago

by msy 16y ago

bobds 16y ago

I read a good article on why the charges against Assange are absurd: http://rixstep.com/1/20101001,01.shtml http://rixstep.com/1/20101001,01.shtml And a more recent follow up: http://rixstep.com/1/20101202,01.shtml http://rixstep.com/1/20101202,01.shtml

alextgordon 16y ago
Is there a better source? I'm not sure I'm inclined to believe anything rixstep says.
- bobds 16y ago
  I'm not inclined to believe anything regarding Wikileaks or Assange. I'm sure more than a few people have seen those tweets and some Twitter crawlers/indexers have them stored somewhere. We'll see how it plays out, no need to speculate at this point.
elai 16y ago
Wow, a conspiracy theory that would make sense. The US government finds the leak in may, knows wiki leaks has it. Knows that they'll not be able to directly attack the organization on free speech grounds so they create a character assignation plot and create a rape plot.

RuadhanMc 16y ago

Unless they actually charge him with something in Sweden -- which I believe is actually a requirement for this sort of warrant to be issued -- they won't be able to move him to Sweden. Hopefully sanity doesn't desert the British legal system as well.

nagrom 16y ago
Spoken by someone who doesn't know the British legal system well at all. The lack of sanity in the system is breathtakingly clear. We recently convicted someone for making a joke via Twitter, and he didn't have the resources of a government(s?) behind the conviction: http://heresycorner.blogspot.com/2010/11/with-conviction-of-paul-chambers-it-is.html http://heresycorner.blogspot.com/2010/11/with-conviction-of-... The British legal system is extremely thorough, but excrutiatingly slow. The problem with this approach to justice is that we tend hand people off to foreign governments and then it's too late to recall them. Lessons be will learned, no individual blame will be attached, and Assange will be ruined.

evgeny0 16y ago

If that is indeed his plan then he is incredibly naive.

ugh 16y ago
If I take the high-profile “rape” trials I know about as a guide (mere allegations, scant or no evidence, a hungry press and tons of lawyers) this could take a long, long while with much opportunity for Assange to say whatever he wants and a lot of pressure for all involved parties. It’s not as though Sweden can lock him up and throw away the keys. He is relatively safe in British or Swedish custody, if anything were to happen to him the respective governments would get massive problems and there would be no plausible deniability.
- gst 16y ago
  "It’s not as though Sweden can lock him up and throw away the keys." Don't be too sure. To quote from the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/06/wikileaks-julian-assange-police http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/06/wikileaks-julian...): "Assange has also said that he declined to return to Sweden to face prosecutors because he feared he would not receive a fair trial, and prosecutors had requested that he be held in solitary confinement and incommunicado." The age of democracy is now officially over...
  - moxiemk1 16y ago
    Not only has there been nothing resembling an "age of democracy" in modern times, but Julian Assange doesn't stand for democracy in any way, shape, or form. He has indeed demonstrated that modern technology combined with antiquated practice can enable a single person to control our institutions for his own purposes. Not really sure how that got mistaken with democracy. Let's use our words carefully and precisely. Did you mean the "age of free speech"?

Udo 16y ago

I think the plan is fairly simple: to clear his name by showing these absurd trumped-up charges for what they are, the machiavellian machinations of the US via a disturbingly compliant Swedish legal system. I'm sorry, but there is simply _nothing_ he could ever say to them that would make those charges go away. How is the name clearing supposed to happen?

tdoggette 16y ago
Traditionally, by starting with "Not guilty, Your Honor," and going from there, but things might be different in Sweden.
- Udo 16y ago
  AFAIK they already have statements to that effect, he made them earlier while he was still in the country.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    AFAIK, they have statements like that from the alleged victims... If that didn't make them drop the charges, I am not sure what would.

atomical 16y ago

How are they absurd and how do you have such intimate knowledge of this case?

nhangen 16y ago

I'm fairly certain that running from the law in this instance would do more harm than good to his cause. If he's not guilty, then he's got nothing to hide. The sooner he clears his name here the quicker he can go back to doing his thing. They would've found him anyway, so he's just complying with the inevitable.

steveklabnik 16y ago
> If he's not guilty, then he's got nothing to hide. This assumes the other side plays fair. This assumes that the judge and jury will be rational. This assumes that it's really about sexual assault, and not about politics. Have you ever seen a rape trial? They're not known for being level-headed.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  When a rape trial starts out with something that is not a rape then 'level-headed' went out the window before the trial got started.
  - eru 16y ago
    Isn't the job of an x-trial to find out, whether x has happened?
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      Yes, normally it is. In this case the definition of 'rape' has apparently been stretched well beyond the breaking point, to where the victim will throw a party for the perp only to go to the police several days later after colluding with another victim. Let's just say that I find the charge sufficiently heavy that I would expect the bar for being charged with this crime to be considerably higher than what is seen so far. And that's totally besides my views on wikileaks, Julian Assange or anything else.
      - philwelch 16y ago