6 ms·

Well, Russia recently invaded a European country, assassinated several people in the U.K., got caught using spies to infiltrate U.S. political parties, hacked t

by _iyig 7y ago

Well, Russia recently invaded a European country, assassinated several people in the U.K., got caught using spies to infiltrate U.S. political parties, hacked the emails of a U.S. presidential candidate while meeting secretly with her opponent (who may or may not be massively in the Russian government’s debt), and resumed air attack drills on NATO countries. So, a lot of English-speaking people see Russia as the “bad guy” right now.

basetop 7y ago
I'd stopped consuming so much cable news, it can rot your brain. And why did you edit out "China's human rights may be even worse" from your comment? That's certainly something that is up for debate. "English-speaking people"? What's that? Russia does bad things. China does bad things. The EU does bad things. We do bad things. What's strange is the sudden hysteria and relentless propaganda directed towards china and russia in particular. It's not like Russia and China were saints before.
- _iyig 7y ago
  >And why did you edit out "China's human rights may be even worse" from your comment? That's certainly something that is up for debate. That comment didn’t seem relevant in hindsight. The article is only about Russia. Discussion of China’s human rights record would not be on-topic commentary.
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  We in Europe have a very personal stake in this. The chance of China ever invading us is minuscule bordering to none, the same can't be said for Russia. They've already done it in the past numerous times - I know damn well since I come from former Czechoslovakia. I have no kind word for a russians due to this, my parents and their whole generation have pretty horrible stories to tell and effects of their meddling and bloody direct invasion in 1968 are still felt these days. And they've done it recently (and still doing it while LOLing like nothing is happening) with Ukraine. You don't need to consume cable news at all, I've stopped some 15 years ago. This is plain old history.
  - cpursley 7y ago
    The only thing Russia is interested in invading in Europe are the beaches and Gucci stores. Even the French have a larger and more modern military than the Russian Federation...
    - Jotra7 7y ago
      Ivan, is that you?
    - dgellow 7y ago
      Russia literally invaded Ukraine 5 years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_...
      - 0_gravitas 7y ago
        I'm sorry sir, you must be mistaken, those were just Ukrainian soldiers wearing Russian uniforms and using Russian weapons, happens all the time
  - azangru 7y ago
    > They've already done it in the past numerous times - I know damn well since I come from former Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia was a part of the Soviet Bloc, wasn't it? During the time of Cold War? With Soviet Union being, in effect the ruling center of the bloc and considering the rest of the Soviet countries its sphere of influence? I mean, it doesn't justify what Soviet Union did then, but what happened to Czechoslovakia couldn't have happened to France, or Sweden, or the UK. Things are completely different now. Yes, even now, with the militaristic rhetoric on both sides rising to the Cold War-era level. There is no Soviet bloc. Russia is reduced in its ambitions to the level of a minor regional power. As for Ukraine, it has the misfortune of sharing a border and a lot of common history with Russia; so much so that Russia still considers it its sphere of interest. With Western Europe things are completely different. Russia may have squabbles with Ukraine or perhaps even with Baltic states (unlikely, because they are members of NATO), but to conclude from that that other European countries are under the risk of Russian invasion is to misrepresent reality, I believe.
- skilled 7y ago
  Well, actually, it's the government with your money that does bad things. You are subscribed to the government and won't do anything about it. So, it's actually mostly your fault (society). Until people decide this is not the way of life, this circle will continue until extinction.
  - dTal 7y ago
    I think it's a fine thing to take responsibility for your government. But it's a bit much to blame people for the government doing bad things with "their" money. It's not their picture on the money. There's no unsubscribe option on a tax return form. You can't opt out, and even in our Western democracies representation is... poor, to say the least. The distinction between a government and its population is not meaningless.
    - skilled 7y ago
      And it never crosses your mind that it's a little ironic how a human is born without freedom (tax) from day one. Don't you think that's suspiciously convinient for the government? There are clearly a lot of flaws in this illusionary order of systematic living. You underestimate the possibilities outside of being chained to repetition. Maybe you think that countries make sense too on a global scale? Clearly we have very different views on the human potential.
      - dTal 7y ago
        I really have no idea what any of that has to do with anything said by either myself or user basestop, who you originally replied to. Or how you came to any conclusions about my mental state.
  - azangru 7y ago
    > and won't do anything about it We vote. The only legal democratic tool to "do anything about it", isn't it? Only our vote is a minority one that doesn't count much. And what the hell is "society", anyway? Given that, say, 70 percent of the population votes one way and 30 percent the other way, is there any fault with the 30 percent? Are they "society"?
- stplsd 7y ago
  What a nice example of subtle aboutism.
lm28469 7y ago
And the US are the good guys, never played a role in foreign countries political systems, never spied on anyone, never started wars, killed civilians in countless countries, founded terrorists organisations, &c. ? It's very easy to tell the bad guys to stop being bad, while doing the same things and pretending it's right. You don't even have to go back to MKULTRA or vietnam, it's happening right now. But be careful, the mean russians have whales with light harnesses and the chinese have backdoors in all our technology. It's even sillier than most WW1/2 propaganda. https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Trump-Admin-Wants-500M-to-Fund-Its-Intervention-in-Venezuela-20190312-0007.html https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Trump-Admin-Wants-500M-t... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001–present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war... https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-golan-recognition-a-dangerous-precedent/a-48037886 https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-golan-recognition-a-dangerous-p... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/11/03/dozens-us-spies-killed-iran-china-uncovered-cia-messaging-service/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/11/03/dozens-us-... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isi...
- sgift 7y ago
  That the US does bad things does not invalidate the bad things China and Russia do. You sound like someone who gets a speeding ticket and answers "but everyone else is speeding too! Why do you punish me?!"
  - lm28469 7y ago
    I rarely see negative threads about the US on hackernews, but not a day goes by without the regular anti chinese/russian propaganda, especially concerning military and/or technology.
    - jerf 7y ago
      "I rarely see negative threads about the US on hackernews," You must not be looking, then.
    - 7y ago
YeahSureWhyNot 7y ago
you must be watching CNN all day long
paulddraper 7y ago
Meanwhile, Mexico (and other Central American countries) continue to have rampant violent gangs and political corruption, causing a constant of drugs, guns, and refugees. And undoubtedly has a greater aggregate impact on U.S. politics than a handful of Russian nationals. Yet Mexico gets a fraction of the bad press as the Russian threat.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  Mexican refugees didn't just lose a trained Beluga whale wearing a harness. The latter being the topic of the news story.
zaro 7y ago
> So, a lot of English-speaking people see Russia as the “bad guy” right now. So a lot of English-speaking people are falling for mass media lies. And frankly it's getting ridiculous now days. It seems that whatever US media starts pushing out ( and it's usually w/o proof ) people will just eat it up. Not trying to defined anything here, but I kind of try to read news from all kind of source , and I can tell you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ugw9h6cxmw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ugw9h6cxmw . Edit: formatting
- JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
  Did the US media fabricate the invasion of Ukraine?
  - zaro 7y ago
    I don't know what are you talking about. What invasion ? Are you talking about the events surrounding this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum .
    - JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
      "The referendum was regarded as illegitimate by most members of the European Union, the United States and Canada mainly due to Russian intervention.[13] Thirteen members of the United Nations Security Council voted in favor of a resolution declaring the referendum invalid, but Russia vetoed it and China abstained.[14][15] A United Nations General Assembly resolution was later adopted, by a vote of 100 in favor vs. 11 against with 58 abstentions, which declared the referendum invalid and affirmed Ukraine's territorial integrity."
    - _iyig 7y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine_(2014%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_... "In February 2014, Russia made several military incursions into Ukrainian territory. After Euromaidan protests and the fall of Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, Russian soldiers without insignias took control of strategic positions and infrastructure within the Ukrainian territory of Crimea. Russia then annexed Crimea after an unlawful referendum in which Crimeans voted to join the Russian Federation, according to Russian official results.[12][68][69][70][71] In April, demonstrations by pro-Russian groups in the Donbass area of Ukraine escalated into an armed conflict between the Ukrainian government and the Russia-backed separatist forces of the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics. In August, Russian military vehicles crossed the border in several locations of Donetsk Oblast.[31][72][73][74][75] The incursion by the Russian military was seen as responsible for the defeat of Ukrainian forces in early September."

by _iyig 7y ago

basetop 7y ago

I'd stopped consuming so much cable news, it can rot your brain. And why did you edit out "China's human rights may be even worse" from your comment? That's certainly something that is up for debate. "English-speaking people"? What's that? Russia does bad things. China does bad things. The EU does bad things. We do bad things. What's strange is the sudden hysteria and relentless propaganda directed towards china and russia in particular. It's not like Russia and China were saints before.

_iyig 7y ago
>And why did you edit out "China's human rights may be even worse" from your comment? That's certainly something that is up for debate. That comment didn’t seem relevant in hindsight. The article is only about Russia. Discussion of China’s human rights record would not be on-topic commentary.
saiya-jin 7y ago
We in Europe have a very personal stake in this. The chance of China ever invading us is minuscule bordering to none, the same can't be said for Russia. They've already done it in the past numerous times - I know damn well since I come from former Czechoslovakia. I have no kind word for a russians due to this, my parents and their whole generation have pretty horrible stories to tell and effects of their meddling and bloody direct invasion in 1968 are still felt these days. And they've done it recently (and still doing it while LOLing like nothing is happening) with Ukraine. You don't need to consume cable news at all, I've stopped some 15 years ago. This is plain old history.
- cpursley 7y ago
  The only thing Russia is interested in invading in Europe are the beaches and Gucci stores. Even the French have a larger and more modern military than the Russian Federation...
  - Jotra7 7y ago
    Ivan, is that you?
  - dgellow 7y ago
    Russia literally invaded Ukraine 5 years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_...
    - 0_gravitas 7y ago
      I'm sorry sir, you must be mistaken, those were just Ukrainian soldiers wearing Russian uniforms and using Russian weapons, happens all the time
- azangru 7y ago
  > They've already done it in the past numerous times - I know damn well since I come from former Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia was a part of the Soviet Bloc, wasn't it? During the time of Cold War? With Soviet Union being, in effect the ruling center of the bloc and considering the rest of the Soviet countries its sphere of influence? I mean, it doesn't justify what Soviet Union did then, but what happened to Czechoslovakia couldn't have happened to France, or Sweden, or the UK. Things are completely different now. Yes, even now, with the militaristic rhetoric on both sides rising to the Cold War-era level. There is no Soviet bloc. Russia is reduced in its ambitions to the level of a minor regional power. As for Ukraine, it has the misfortune of sharing a border and a lot of common history with Russia; so much so that Russia still considers it its sphere of interest. With Western Europe things are completely different. Russia may have squabbles with Ukraine or perhaps even with Baltic states (unlikely, because they are members of NATO), but to conclude from that that other European countries are under the risk of Russian invasion is to misrepresent reality, I believe.
skilled 7y ago
Well, actually, it's the government with your money that does bad things. You are subscribed to the government and won't do anything about it. So, it's actually mostly your fault (society). Until people decide this is not the way of life, this circle will continue until extinction.
- dTal 7y ago
  I think it's a fine thing to take responsibility for your government. But it's a bit much to blame people for the government doing bad things with "their" money. It's not their picture on the money. There's no unsubscribe option on a tax return form. You can't opt out, and even in our Western democracies representation is... poor, to say the least. The distinction between a government and its population is not meaningless.
  - skilled 7y ago
    And it never crosses your mind that it's a little ironic how a human is born without freedom (tax) from day one. Don't you think that's suspiciously convinient for the government? There are clearly a lot of flaws in this illusionary order of systematic living. You underestimate the possibilities outside of being chained to repetition. Maybe you think that countries make sense too on a global scale? Clearly we have very different views on the human potential.
    - dTal 7y ago
      I really have no idea what any of that has to do with anything said by either myself or user basestop, who you originally replied to. Or how you came to any conclusions about my mental state.
- azangru 7y ago
  > and won't do anything about it We vote. The only legal democratic tool to "do anything about it", isn't it? Only our vote is a minority one that doesn't count much. And what the hell is "society", anyway? Given that, say, 70 percent of the population votes one way and 30 percent the other way, is there any fault with the 30 percent? Are they "society"?
stplsd 7y ago
What a nice example of subtle aboutism.

lm28469 7y ago

And the US are the good guys, never played a role in foreign countries political systems, never spied on anyone, never started wars, killed civilians in countless countries, founded terrorists organisations, &c. ? It's very easy to tell the bad guys to stop being bad, while doing the same things and pretending it's right. You don't even have to go back to MKULTRA or vietnam, it's happening right now. But be careful, the mean russians have whales with light harnesses and the chinese have backdoors in all our technology. It's even sillier than most WW1/2 propaganda. https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Trump-Admin-Wants-500M-to-Fund-Its-Intervention-in-Venezuela-20190312-0007.html https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Trump-Admin-Wants-500M-t... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001–present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war... https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-golan-recognition-a-dangerous-precedent/a-48037886 https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-golan-recognition-a-dangerous-p... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/11/03/dozens-us-spies-killed-iran-china-uncovered-cia-messaging-service/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/11/03/dozens-us-... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isi...

sgift 7y ago
That the US does bad things does not invalidate the bad things China and Russia do. You sound like someone who gets a speeding ticket and answers "but everyone else is speeding too! Why do you punish me?!"
- lm28469 7y ago
  I rarely see negative threads about the US on hackernews, but not a day goes by without the regular anti chinese/russian propaganda, especially concerning military and/or technology.
  - jerf 7y ago
    "I rarely see negative threads about the US on hackernews," You must not be looking, then.
  - 7y ago

YeahSureWhyNot 7y ago

you must be watching CNN all day long

paulddraper 7y ago

Meanwhile, Mexico (and other Central American countries) continue to have rampant violent gangs and political corruption, causing a constant of drugs, guns, and refugees. And undoubtedly has a greater aggregate impact on U.S. politics than a handful of Russian nationals. Yet Mexico gets a fraction of the bad press as the Russian threat.

52-6F-62 7y ago
Mexican refugees didn't just lose a trained Beluga whale wearing a harness. The latter being the topic of the news story.

zaro 7y ago

> So, a lot of English-speaking people see Russia as the “bad guy” right now. So a lot of English-speaking people are falling for mass media lies. And frankly it's getting ridiculous now days. It seems that whatever US media starts pushing out ( and it's usually w/o proof ) people will just eat it up. Not trying to defined anything here, but I kind of try to read news from all kind of source , and I can tell you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ugw9h6cxmw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ugw9h6cxmw . Edit: formatting

JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
Did the US media fabricate the invasion of Ukraine?
- zaro 7y ago
  I don't know what are you talking about. What invasion ? Are you talking about the events surrounding this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum .
  - JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
    "The referendum was regarded as illegitimate by most members of the European Union, the United States and Canada mainly due to Russian intervention.[13] Thirteen members of the United Nations Security Council voted in favor of a resolution declaring the referendum invalid, but Russia vetoed it and China abstained.[14][15] A United Nations General Assembly resolution was later adopted, by a vote of 100 in favor vs. 11 against with 58 abstentions, which declared the referendum invalid and affirmed Ukraine's territorial integrity."
  - _iyig 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine_(2014%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_... "In February 2014, Russia made several military incursions into Ukrainian territory. After Euromaidan protests and the fall of Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, Russian soldiers without insignias took control of strategic positions and infrastructure within the Ukrainian territory of Crimea. Russia then annexed Crimea after an unlawful referendum in which Crimeans voted to join the Russian Federation, according to Russian official results.[12][68][69][70][71] In April, demonstrations by pro-Russian groups in the Donbass area of Ukraine escalated into an armed conflict between the Ukrainian government and the Russia-backed separatist forces of the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics. In August, Russian military vehicles crossed the border in several locations of Donetsk Oblast.[31][72][73][74][75] The incursion by the Russian military was seen as responsible for the defeat of Ukrainian forces in early September."