5 ms·

I was skeptical about "boycotting" China and Huawei for a long time; just thought that they make cheap phones, and innovative tech, so why not. I changed 180 d

by O_H_E 7y ago

I was skeptical about "boycotting" China and Huawei for a long time; just thought that they make cheap phones, and innovative tech, so why not. I changed 180 degrees when I started learning about the growing Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities. China is growing its economic dominance very quickly. They are gaining many growing Asian and African countries under their belts (pun intended with the belt & road initiative [1]) These poor counties don't really have a say when offered china's generous offers, but we do. It is going to be expensive, just like trying to fix climate change is: We have to be willing to pay to fix our mistakes (or other people in our society, if we want better future for our [grand]kids. But we will only be paying the price of our mistakes: depending that much on sweatshops, factory workers who are paid next to nothing, and collaborating with an authoritarian regime that clearly opposed our values for the longest time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative Concentration camps and race-based terrorism in Xinjiang: https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-life-like-in-xinjiang-reeducation-camps-china-2018-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-life-like-in-xinjian... Belt and road effect on nature: https://www.businessinsider.com/china-belt-road-encourages-invasive-species-2019-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-belt-road-encourages-i... PS: I agree with the stance on bloomberg, but that doesn't really defy my point. I just had to get something off my chest.

icebraining 7y ago
What do you suggest we do? I'm asking in good faith; I think the worries of the influence of the CPC in the world are valid, but China can't simply be boycotted like any small country, and it's also not clear to me those boycotts (Cuba, Iran, etc) really effect change.
- joaomacp 7y ago
  I think it's important to show our governments that we're worried about this influence. Hopefully they'll react to that and move closer to the people's wants (you know, like democracies are supposed to work)
- pmontra 7y ago
  We can choose who we want to be spied by.
cies 7y ago
I swapped out China for US, Huawei for Google/Apple/Amazon/Facebook, Asian for South American, and it all still made sense.
- threeseed 7y ago
  US is a democracy with an independent judiciary. China isn't. Google, Apple etc are public companies. Huawei is state controlled. So it only makes sense if you completely ignore the basic facts.
  - lmm 7y ago
    > Google, Apple etc are public companies. Huawei is state controlled. Citation needed - Huawei denies being under state control and there is no evidence of any direct state involvement in their day-to-day decisions. Maybe the Chinese state makes secret demands of them occasionally - but maybe the US state makes secret demands of Google/Apple occasionally.
    - threeseed 7y ago
      US companies comply with laws governed by an independent judiciary and monitored by a free press. China has none of those.
      - netsharc 7y ago
        Honestly, China is probably worse, but it's not like the USA is the shining beacon of freedom and democracy. Or is Brett Kavanaugh an honorable man? We are all sort of guilty, we want our cheap goods (clothes, smartphones) and look away when the news talks about garment factories collapsing in Bangladesh, or when the Chinese phone factory workers commit suicide. I enjoy a high living standard, I don't think the way the West (me included) is living is sustainable and it's built on the blood and suffering of so many around the world (like the news the other day how electronic waste exported from Europe are poisoning Ghanaians), but well, isn't ignorance bliss...
BLKNSLVR 7y ago
"Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities." I know your heart is in the right place, but you could replace China with "The US" or "Russia" or "North Korea" or "colonial Britain" or almost any other country and it would be true. Those who wouldn't be worthy of the list are those who've never had the resources or opportunity to make the list. It's sad, but I believe it's pretty close to the truth. In relation to China, "The West" gifted it the power it now wields by outsourcing manufacturing there because cheap labor meant much higher percentage profits for all the savvy business owners who didn't want to pay local rates. And didn't they do well over the last 40-odd years! Can't deny it being smart business back then. Also can't deny that China's current world power status wasn't predictable 40-odd years ago if businesses everywhere decided to follow suit. And they did, and here we are, and all the countries that host companies that contributed to this are now having a cry about the actions of the monster they profited from creating.
- threeseed 7y ago
  China has millions of Uighur Muslims, journalists, dissidents etc in detention centres in the Western Xinjiang region. Some of whom were even fellow Australian citizens kidnapped that are still missing. China has a surveillance network and social credit system that is unparalleled by anything in the entire history of this planet. China is right now a Xi dictatorship that has no independent judiciary, no free press, no independent companies, censored internet and the most sophisticated and efficient crackdown mechanisms known to man. And you actually think that the US or Britain is equivalent ? Ridiculous.
  - freeflight 7y ago
    Maybe your memory of history is very short, but the US pretty much championed a lot of the things you rail against China for in their "war on terror". Torture camps and abducting people into them included, just like Internet-censorship (to prevent the spread of "terrorist propaganda") and pretty much the biggest and most sophisticated global surveillance system in human history, facilitated through the FiveEyes cooperation. A lot of the things China does on a domestic basis, the US has been doing for decades on a global basis. The absurd thing about this all being: They all use the same reasoning to sell this authoritarian creep to the population, the "fight against terrorism". And people gobble it up like it's the most normal thing ever, regardless of them being Chinese, US American or British.
samirm 7y ago
You couldn't sound more pretentious if you tried

by O_H_E 7y ago

icebraining 7y ago

What do you suggest we do? I'm asking in good faith; I think the worries of the influence of the CPC in the world are valid, but China can't simply be boycotted like any small country, and it's also not clear to me those boycotts (Cuba, Iran, etc) really effect change.

joaomacp 7y ago
I think it's important to show our governments that we're worried about this influence. Hopefully they'll react to that and move closer to the people's wants (you know, like democracies are supposed to work)
pmontra 7y ago
We can choose who we want to be spied by.

cies 7y ago

I swapped out China for US, Huawei for Google/Apple/Amazon/Facebook, Asian for South American, and it all still made sense.

threeseed 7y ago
US is a democracy with an independent judiciary. China isn't. Google, Apple etc are public companies. Huawei is state controlled. So it only makes sense if you completely ignore the basic facts.
- lmm 7y ago
  > Google, Apple etc are public companies. Huawei is state controlled. Citation needed - Huawei denies being under state control and there is no evidence of any direct state involvement in their day-to-day decisions. Maybe the Chinese state makes secret demands of them occasionally - but maybe the US state makes secret demands of Google/Apple occasionally.
  - threeseed 7y ago
    US companies comply with laws governed by an independent judiciary and monitored by a free press. China has none of those.
    - netsharc 7y ago
      Honestly, China is probably worse, but it's not like the USA is the shining beacon of freedom and democracy. Or is Brett Kavanaugh an honorable man? We are all sort of guilty, we want our cheap goods (clothes, smartphones) and look away when the news talks about garment factories collapsing in Bangladesh, or when the Chinese phone factory workers commit suicide. I enjoy a high living standard, I don't think the way the West (me included) is living is sustainable and it's built on the blood and suffering of so many around the world (like the news the other day how electronic waste exported from Europe are poisoning Ghanaians), but well, isn't ignorance bliss...

BLKNSLVR 7y ago

"Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities." I know your heart is in the right place, but you could replace China with "The US" or "Russia" or "North Korea" or "colonial Britain" or almost any other country and it would be true. Those who wouldn't be worthy of the list are those who've never had the resources or opportunity to make the list. It's sad, but I believe it's pretty close to the truth. In relation to China, "The West" gifted it the power it now wields by outsourcing manufacturing there because cheap labor meant much higher percentage profits for all the savvy business owners who didn't want to pay local rates. And didn't they do well over the last 40-odd years! Can't deny it being smart business back then. Also can't deny that China's current world power status wasn't predictable 40-odd years ago if businesses everywhere decided to follow suit. And they did, and here we are, and all the countries that host companies that contributed to this are now having a cry about the actions of the monster they profited from creating.

threeseed 7y ago
China has millions of Uighur Muslims, journalists, dissidents etc in detention centres in the Western Xinjiang region. Some of whom were even fellow Australian citizens kidnapped that are still missing. China has a surveillance network and social credit system that is unparalleled by anything in the entire history of this planet. China is right now a Xi dictatorship that has no independent judiciary, no free press, no independent companies, censored internet and the most sophisticated and efficient crackdown mechanisms known to man. And you actually think that the US or Britain is equivalent ? Ridiculous.
- freeflight 7y ago
  Maybe your memory of history is very short, but the US pretty much championed a lot of the things you rail against China for in their "war on terror". Torture camps and abducting people into them included, just like Internet-censorship (to prevent the spread of "terrorist propaganda") and pretty much the biggest and most sophisticated global surveillance system in human history, facilitated through the FiveEyes cooperation. A lot of the things China does on a domestic basis, the US has been doing for decades on a global basis. The absurd thing about this all being: They all use the same reasoning to sell this authoritarian creep to the population, the "fight against terrorism". And people gobble it up like it's the most normal thing ever, regardless of them being Chinese, US American or British.

samirm 7y ago

You couldn't sound more pretentious if you tried