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Color me skeptical that Starlink will reach its theoretical maximum capabilities, or that it is competitive with 5G. I'm fine with fiber until then. It's afford

Color me skeptical that Starlink will reach its theoretical maximum capabilities, or that it is competitive with 5G. I'm fine with fiber until then. It's affordable in most of the world. The problem of broadband monopolies in the US is not going to be resolved by a new privately-owned technology. We should hold local politicians' feet to the fire, not throw money at new tech from a monorail salesman.

icelancer 7y ago
>> We should hold local politicians' feet to the fire, not throw money at new tech from a monorail salesman. We need to do both, as Seattle has proven with its sporadic availability of gigabit fiber and the shutdown of third parties attempting to bring it here. In fact, doing the latter IS doing the former.
- metildaa 7y ago
  Centurylink covers 70÷% of the city with gigabit for $65 a month, take a look at the cable franchise map before throwing stones: http://www.seattle.gov/tech/services/cable-service/cable-franchises http://www.seattle.gov/tech/services/cable-service/cable-fra...
  - icelancer 7y ago
    Yeah, I happen to live in an area that CL offers 6mbps maximum to, and it is weirdly in a minority-dense part of Seattle metropolitan. They have zero plans to expand to our area, they've stated repeatedly. I'll throw stones as much as I like, thanks.
    - metildaa 7y ago
      The city contract requires they service the lowest income parts of the city first, hence the extremely patchwork rollout over the last few years. Due to the mandatory client base skew, the city is causing them to redline middle and high income areas of the city. Fiber is in Georgetown and Rainer Valley, but your SoL in Fremont's built up areas and in Sand Point. Universal coverage should have been mandated, but its easy to end up like Kenmore (which required total Fios coverage from Verizon, now Frontier) and has seen Finn Hill go unserviced for years. Enforcement of the franchise contract is just as critical as initial negotiation. Outside of a few select areas, most of Seattle only ever saw ADSL (or no DSL in parts of the north end) as we didn't allow large VDSL2 cabinets in the public ROW. I think this has caused Centurylink to build fiber in the city, as they've rarely overbuilt VDSL2 areas like Bellevue, Kent & Auburn.
      - icelancer 7y ago
        >> Rainer Valley Nope. I live square in the middle of it, can't get double digit mbps download speeds from them.
        metildaa 7y ago
        I would encourage you tp double check during the daytime on https://shop.centurylink.com/MasterWebPortal/freeRange/shop/guidedShoppingStart?bones https://shop.centurylink.com/MasterWebPortal/freeRange/shop/... I've noticed they seem to offer ADSL (6mbps) after 6pm or so at addresses that already have fiber, presumably their prequal database for fiber goes offline for a few hours a day.
        icelancer 7y ago
        I've called multiple times and schedule a check every three months to see if it's been updated. Been doing that for years. Won't give you my cross streets but I assure you, they have nothing for me. They say it's available just a few blocks over. That's been the case for a long time and they can't seem to get it about 0.25 miles further. Been that way for years.
tuxxy 7y ago
> it's affordable in most of the world I'm afraid you are drastically underestimating how much it actually costs to install fiber.
- studentrob 7y ago
  Good point. I meant the developed world. Regarding the 3rd world, Facebook offered India free internet with strings attached, and IIRC they rejected it. That idea wasn't too popular there or here. Would Musk be given a pass for offering discounted or free internet to 3rd world countries, and what strings would investors suggest he attach?
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > Would Musk be given a pass for offering discounted or free internet to 3rd world countries, and what strings would investors suggest he attach? Why would he want to do that? Facebook wanted to do that, because that would drive more users to their platform. SpaceX wants to use Starlink in order to bankroll BFR[0], so what they want is to simply sell the service at a price point that generates them enough money. It's not beneficial to them to discount it, make it free, or play other shenanigans. -- [0] - Or whatever it's called now; it'll always be the BFR in my heart.
    - studentrob 7y ago
      > Why would he want to do that? Because granting internet fast lanes to certain content providers is a way to generate revenue. Zero-rating is already happening [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-rating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-rating
  - Symmetry 7y ago
    If you have a lot of market power and you want to make as much money as possible the rational thing to do is to charge people according to their willingness to pay[1]. You can't do this perfectly but this is what is behind senior discounts and Intel's huge number of SKUs. Since people in Botswana can't profitably resell their internet in England, since Starlink can easily charge different amounts in different countries, and because the marginal cost of servicing a new region is approximately zero it would be crazy for Starlink not to do geographic pricing tiers. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination
simonh 7y ago
Who's the "we" that is throwing money at this? Starlink is privately funded.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
wongarsu 7y ago
Fiber is affordable in cities (a market nearly impossible to service by satellite anyways). Even developed countries struggle with deploying fiber in rural environments. Every satellite internet offering targets rural settings, ships and planes. StarLink is no different, just that they will be competitive in a wider range of such settings.

icelancer 7y ago

>> We should hold local politicians' feet to the fire, not throw money at new tech from a monorail salesman. We need to do both, as Seattle has proven with its sporadic availability of gigabit fiber and the shutdown of third parties attempting to bring it here. In fact, doing the latter IS doing the former.

metildaa 7y ago
Centurylink covers 70÷% of the city with gigabit for $65 a month, take a look at the cable franchise map before throwing stones: http://www.seattle.gov/tech/services/cable-service/cable-franchises http://www.seattle.gov/tech/services/cable-service/cable-fra...
- icelancer 7y ago
  Yeah, I happen to live in an area that CL offers 6mbps maximum to, and it is weirdly in a minority-dense part of Seattle metropolitan. They have zero plans to expand to our area, they've stated repeatedly. I'll throw stones as much as I like, thanks.
  - metildaa 7y ago
    The city contract requires they service the lowest income parts of the city first, hence the extremely patchwork rollout over the last few years. Due to the mandatory client base skew, the city is causing them to redline middle and high income areas of the city. Fiber is in Georgetown and Rainer Valley, but your SoL in Fremont's built up areas and in Sand Point. Universal coverage should have been mandated, but its easy to end up like Kenmore (which required total Fios coverage from Verizon, now Frontier) and has seen Finn Hill go unserviced for years. Enforcement of the franchise contract is just as critical as initial negotiation. Outside of a few select areas, most of Seattle only ever saw ADSL (or no DSL in parts of the north end) as we didn't allow large VDSL2 cabinets in the public ROW. I think this has caused Centurylink to build fiber in the city, as they've rarely overbuilt VDSL2 areas like Bellevue, Kent & Auburn.
    - icelancer 7y ago
      >> Rainer Valley Nope. I live square in the middle of it, can't get double digit mbps download speeds from them.
      - metildaa 7y ago
        I would encourage you tp double check during the daytime on https://shop.centurylink.com/MasterWebPortal/freeRange/shop/guidedShoppingStart?bones https://shop.centurylink.com/MasterWebPortal/freeRange/shop/... I've noticed they seem to offer ADSL (6mbps) after 6pm or so at addresses that already have fiber, presumably their prequal database for fiber goes offline for a few hours a day.
        icelancer 7y ago
        I've called multiple times and schedule a check every three months to see if it's been updated. Been doing that for years. Won't give you my cross streets but I assure you, they have nothing for me. They say it's available just a few blocks over. That's been the case for a long time and they can't seem to get it about 0.25 miles further. Been that way for years.

tuxxy 7y ago

> it's affordable in most of the world I'm afraid you are drastically underestimating how much it actually costs to install fiber.

studentrob 7y ago
Good point. I meant the developed world. Regarding the 3rd world, Facebook offered India free internet with strings attached, and IIRC they rejected it. That idea wasn't too popular there or here. Would Musk be given a pass for offering discounted or free internet to 3rd world countries, and what strings would investors suggest he attach?
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > Would Musk be given a pass for offering discounted or free internet to 3rd world countries, and what strings would investors suggest he attach? Why would he want to do that? Facebook wanted to do that, because that would drive more users to their platform. SpaceX wants to use Starlink in order to bankroll BFR[0], so what they want is to simply sell the service at a price point that generates them enough money. It's not beneficial to them to discount it, make it free, or play other shenanigans. -- [0] - Or whatever it's called now; it'll always be the BFR in my heart.
  - studentrob 7y ago
    > Why would he want to do that? Because granting internet fast lanes to certain content providers is a way to generate revenue. Zero-rating is already happening [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-rating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-rating
- Symmetry 7y ago
  If you have a lot of market power and you want to make as much money as possible the rational thing to do is to charge people according to their willingness to pay[1]. You can't do this perfectly but this is what is behind senior discounts and Intel's huge number of SKUs. Since people in Botswana can't profitably resell their internet in England, since Starlink can easily charge different amounts in different countries, and because the marginal cost of servicing a new region is approximately zero it would be crazy for Starlink not to do geographic pricing tiers. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination

simonh 7y ago

Who's the "we" that is throwing money at this? Starlink is privately funded.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

wongarsu 7y ago

Fiber is affordable in cities (a market nearly impossible to service by satellite anyways). Even developed countries struggle with deploying fiber in rural environments. Every satellite internet offering targets rural settings, ships and planes. StarLink is no different, just that they will be competitive in a wider range of such settings.