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Emphasis on “during your entire life”. Yes in the wild, cattle would be naturally inclined to bear offspring annually, but may not always. Also, would eventuall

Emphasis on “during your entire life”. Yes in the wild, cattle would be naturally inclined to bear offspring annually, but may not always. Also, would eventually stop and live on to help care for the calves of younger individuals in the flock. Wild cattle were likely also older when they first calves as domesticated cattle are both bred to calve earlier and also forced too. Basically inseminated as early as physiologically possible. Keep in mind also that dairy cattle are bred for optimal milk production which carry a lot of problems like mastitis, birth complications etc. and yes most dairy cattle are artificially inseminated.

simion314 7y ago
>Emphasis on “during your entire life”. Yes in the wild, cattle would be naturally inclined to bear offspring annually, but may not always. Also, would eventually stop and live on to help care for the calves of younger individuals in the flock. Please link me to facts >Wild cattle were likely also older when they first calves as domesticated cattle are both bred to calve earlier and also forced too. Basically inseminated as early as physiologically possible. Please link , because I can't believe that a wild animal is in heat but decides not to follow the instincts, my cat got pregnant so freaking young I was afraid she would die. The animals do not decide this but if you have links to scientific paper where healthy individuals do not follow the natural instinct I want to see it. I am not arguing for a camp or other, I want to clear up things when someone tells me things that at first glance seems as fake things people in cities that never seen an animal imagined. But I will change my mind if you provide the facts to read for myself.
- tomstoms 7y ago
  Not sure what qualifies fact, as there are not a lot of wild bovine species left in world. As for choosing not to mate, I think there are studies showing that animals in captivity regularly refuse to mate. After all, in the wild there’s competition. It’s also possible and not uncommon to alter feeding regimes to stimulate heifers to reach puberty faster than that which would happen in the wild. The comment was meant to touch upon the question of whether dairy cattle live happy lifes. It’s hard to argue that they do, although it’s also hard to prove that they don’t. From an ethical humanitarian point of view which I think is totally appropriate when deciding what to eat, one can easily empathize with these animals by simple observation and a sprinkle of common sense. Whatever the facts are, dictated by whatever authority, may or may not make a huge difference. I don’t think it matters so long as animals are impregnated forcefully by humans through artificial insemination while in captivity, there’s so little resemblance to the wild that any comparison is quite pointless. Edit: I have education in agriculture and have both visited and worked at several dairy farms.
  - simion314 7y ago
    I also don't care what happens in the wild, I care about facts and people that invent facts to support their claims. AFAIK we can't force impregnate an animal if it is not in heat, the animals that won't mate in captivity probably do not get in heat or from documentaries I seen they fail to get pregnant or keep the pregnancy (I seen one about pandas).
    - tomstoms 7y ago
      Well, I can’t produce the hard facts. I’m talking about what I know from anecdotal and educational experience. I don’t have sources at hand. Sorry :) If you really care about the subject I encourage you to research it from all points of view. If you can, visit some dairy farms and make your own observations.
      - simion314 7y ago
        I have a ton of experience with farms in third world countries, we did not feed them antibiotics or hormones or special food, only grass or other related plant thing from our grounds. For a long time we had a bull that would do the job when the cows were in heat but when we reduced the number of cows it is too expensive to have a bull and we asked a veterinarian to do the artificial insemination. I did not heard of any magic way to make the cows have more milk, there is no need to have her get pregnant often, and the quality of the milk is related with the food quality. The quantity of the milk is something genetic, some cows just give more milk then others, and some races then other. What I see from some responses her is that the facts were wrong, the cows are not forced in heat(nobody provided a link) and all the thread is based on morals/ethical stuff that I don't want to debate, I wanted to know if I am missing some information(I have no time and need to inform myself on how some bad farms do things because I am not promoting an ideology with facts I did not researched before)
        tomstoms 7y ago
        That’s your prerogative of course. I never said that cattle are forced into heat. Most of western industrialized dairy production use artificial insemination though. That’s hardy controversial or in need of backing up with sources. Nothing ideological about it. You don’t think it qualifies as forcing an animal into pregnancy, well that’s up to you to fit into your ethics framework, nothing I can present as “fact” can change that. It’s perfectly possible to improve the quality of milk (I.e. manipulate fat, protein and lactose contents) via altering feeding regimes. Hardly controversial, and quite common but in the west, through the use of feed concentrates with additives. Nothing ideological about this either. As for hormone supplements to control heat, well, or sure why you find this hard to believe, but the again, your anecdotal experience maybe doesn’t support it. Do some basic research into western industrialized dairy production. You say you don’t have time to research, but the you expect others to do it for you? Not really any constructive about that. My comment was about a question that was asked: do dairy cattle live happy lives? I don’t believe it’s possible to answer that question with hard facts.

simion314 7y ago

>Emphasis on “during your entire life”. Yes in the wild, cattle would be naturally inclined to bear offspring annually, but may not always. Also, would eventually stop and live on to help care for the calves of younger individuals in the flock. Please link me to facts >Wild cattle were likely also older when they first calves as domesticated cattle are both bred to calve earlier and also forced too. Basically inseminated as early as physiologically possible. Please link , because I can't believe that a wild animal is in heat but decides not to follow the instincts, my cat got pregnant so freaking young I was afraid she would die. The animals do not decide this but if you have links to scientific paper where healthy individuals do not follow the natural instinct I want to see it. I am not arguing for a camp or other, I want to clear up things when someone tells me things that at first glance seems as fake things people in cities that never seen an animal imagined. But I will change my mind if you provide the facts to read for myself.

tomstoms 7y ago
Not sure what qualifies fact, as there are not a lot of wild bovine species left in world. As for choosing not to mate, I think there are studies showing that animals in captivity regularly refuse to mate. After all, in the wild there’s competition. It’s also possible and not uncommon to alter feeding regimes to stimulate heifers to reach puberty faster than that which would happen in the wild. The comment was meant to touch upon the question of whether dairy cattle live happy lifes. It’s hard to argue that they do, although it’s also hard to prove that they don’t. From an ethical humanitarian point of view which I think is totally appropriate when deciding what to eat, one can easily empathize with these animals by simple observation and a sprinkle of common sense. Whatever the facts are, dictated by whatever authority, may or may not make a huge difference. I don’t think it matters so long as animals are impregnated forcefully by humans through artificial insemination while in captivity, there’s so little resemblance to the wild that any comparison is quite pointless. Edit: I have education in agriculture and have both visited and worked at several dairy farms.
- simion314 7y ago
  I also don't care what happens in the wild, I care about facts and people that invent facts to support their claims. AFAIK we can't force impregnate an animal if it is not in heat, the animals that won't mate in captivity probably do not get in heat or from documentaries I seen they fail to get pregnant or keep the pregnancy (I seen one about pandas).
  - tomstoms 7y ago
    Well, I can’t produce the hard facts. I’m talking about what I know from anecdotal and educational experience. I don’t have sources at hand. Sorry :) If you really care about the subject I encourage you to research it from all points of view. If you can, visit some dairy farms and make your own observations.
    - simion314 7y ago
      I have a ton of experience with farms in third world countries, we did not feed them antibiotics or hormones or special food, only grass or other related plant thing from our grounds. For a long time we had a bull that would do the job when the cows were in heat but when we reduced the number of cows it is too expensive to have a bull and we asked a veterinarian to do the artificial insemination. I did not heard of any magic way to make the cows have more milk, there is no need to have her get pregnant often, and the quality of the milk is related with the food quality. The quantity of the milk is something genetic, some cows just give more milk then others, and some races then other. What I see from some responses her is that the facts were wrong, the cows are not forced in heat(nobody provided a link) and all the thread is based on morals/ethical stuff that I don't want to debate, I wanted to know if I am missing some information(I have no time and need to inform myself on how some bad farms do things because I am not promoting an ideology with facts I did not researched before)
      - tomstoms 7y ago
        That’s your prerogative of course. I never said that cattle are forced into heat. Most of western industrialized dairy production use artificial insemination though. That’s hardy controversial or in need of backing up with sources. Nothing ideological about it. You don’t think it qualifies as forcing an animal into pregnancy, well that’s up to you to fit into your ethics framework, nothing I can present as “fact” can change that. It’s perfectly possible to improve the quality of milk (I.e. manipulate fat, protein and lactose contents) via altering feeding regimes. Hardly controversial, and quite common but in the west, through the use of feed concentrates with additives. Nothing ideological about this either. As for hormone supplements to control heat, well, or sure why you find this hard to believe, but the again, your anecdotal experience maybe doesn’t support it. Do some basic research into western industrialized dairy production. You say you don’t have time to research, but the you expect others to do it for you? Not really any constructive about that. My comment was about a question that was asked: do dairy cattle live happy lives? I don’t believe it’s possible to answer that question with hard facts.